The 4 black lies about land in South Africa. Bantu (black Africans) DO NOT have default right to land.

Contrary to popular “politically correct” propaganda put out by mass media, the Bantu, like Europeans, are also settler’s in Southern Africa, having arrived in Northern South Africa about the same time Europeans arrived in Southern South Africa (The Cape). The Bantu had arrived after an extended conquest and genocidal migration southwards from West Africa (Nigeria).

Etymology, history, origins and expansion of the proto-Bantu people of Africa. Bantu peoples is used as a general label for the 300–600 ethnic groups in Africa who speak Bantu languages. The word Bantu and its variations means “people” or “humans”. Versions of this word occur in all Bantu languages.
Between 2500–3000 years ago, speakers of the proto-Bantu language group began a millennia-long series of migrations eastward from their homeland in West Africa. Current scholarly understanding places the ancestral proto-Bantu homeland in West Africa near the present-day south-western border of Nigeria and Cameroon. By 3,500 years ago Bantu-speaking communities reached the great Central African rain forest and by 2,500 years ago pioneering groups had emerged into the savannah in what are now the Democratic Republic of Congo, Angola, and Zambia. Another stream of migration, moving east 3,000 years ago was creating a major new population centre near the Great Lakes of East Africa, where a rich environment supported a dense population.
Movements by small groups to the south-east from the Great Lakes region were more rapid, with initial settlements widely dispersed near the coast and near rivers, due to harsh farming conditions in areas farther from water. Before the expansion of farming and herding Bantu language speaking peoples, Africa south of the equator was populated by neolithic hunting and foraging proto-Khoisan-speaking peoples, whose few remaining descendants, the Khoekhoe and San, now occupy the arid regions around the Kalahari desert.

The Hadza and Sandawe populations in Tanzania comprise the other modern hunter-forager remnant in Africa of these proto-Khoisan-speaking peoples. Over a period of many centuries, most hunting-foraging peoples were displaced and assimilated by incoming Bantu-speaking communities from West, North Central and Eastern Africa. There is no record of how many genocides this involved as whole tribes disappeared.

The Bantu expansion was a long series of physical migrations. Between the 14th and 15th centuries, Bantu states began to emerge in the Great Lakes region in the savannah south of the Central African rain-forest.
In Southern Africa on the Zambezi river, the Monomatapa kings built the famous Great Zimbabwe complex, the Bumbusi in Zimbabwe and Manyikeni in Mozambique.
From the 16th century onward, the processes of state formation among Bantu peoples increased in frequency. Examples of such Bantu states include the Lunda and Luba Empires of Angola, the Congo in the Great Lakes Region, the Buganda and Karagwe Kingdoms of Uganda and Tanzania and in Zambia / Zimbabwe region, the Mutapa Empire, Rozwi Empire and the Danamombe, Khami and Naletale Kingdoms of Zimbabwe and Mozambique.

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Smaller pioneering groups reached modern-day KwaZulu-Natal along the coast and the modern-day Northern Province where they began to make contact with northward migrating white peoples from the Southern tip of Africa.
In the 18th and 19th centuries, the flow of Bantu slaves from South-east Africa increased with the rise of the Omani Sultanate of Zanzibar and Tanzania. With the arrival of European colonialists, the Zanzibar Sultanate came into direct conflict with Portuguese and other Europeans along the East coast, leading to the fall of the Sultanate and the end of slave trading in the mid-20th century.
So REAL history (not fanciful, imagined ANC pan africanist nonsense) tells us that when Jan van Riebeek established a trading post at the Cape the Nguni tribes had barely began to reach Zimbabwe and Mozambique.

LIE NUMBER ONE: There is a common belief in the myth in South Africa that the Natives Land Act of 1913 shoved blacks on reserves (‘7% of the land’) and ‘prohibited them from buying land in white areas’. That ‘whites forcibly removed blacks to these reserves and that these reserves were on the worst land in the country with no mineral riches and that whites kept all the best land and minerals for themselves’. Now if I was a black man, I would probably also want to believe that myth, because it would ensure me eternal victim-hood status and compensation for generations to come. Unfortunately, it is a blatant lie and can be attributed to the lack of reading ability or legal comprehension of the journalists and historians of our time.
First of all the biggest Platinum reserves in the world runs through the former Black homeland of Bophuthatswana (North West province). The former Nationalist government had no problem allocating this area to the Tswana tribes for self rule – although they already had a massive country called Botswana given to them by the British. It was originally part of South Africa, called Bechuanaland.
Blacks further got another two massive countries from the British called Lesotho and Swaziland. There goes their 7%.

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LIE NUMBER TWO: ‘Black homelands were on the worst land in South Africa’.
THE TRUTH: When one compares the rainfall map of South Africa and anybody with elementary knowledge of South Africa will tell you that the largest part of South Africa is called the Karoo. It is a semi desert comparable to Arizona or Nevada in the USA. Blacks never even entered this area let alone settled it. Whites made it blossom and created successful sheep farms producing meat of world quality. Black “settlements” are found on the north and east coast of South Africa. The East Coast has a sub tropical climate and the north a prairie-like climate with summer rainfall and thunder storms. An exception to this is the Western Cape with a Mediterranean climate and winter rainfall. The northern and eastern part of South Africa with its beautiful green grasslands and fertile soil is where the blacks eventually coalesced and this is the land they chose for themselves. Their eventual homelands were found on the land they inhabited out of their own free will. The Afrikaners even have a song praising the greenness of Natal, called ” Groen is die land van Natal” ( Green is the land of Natal). It was perfect grazing area for the cattle herding blacks. The rainfall map below clearly show this.

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LIE NUMBER THREE: ‘Blacks are indigenous to South Africa and first settled it’.
THE TRUTH: Today Blacks in South Africa often tell Afrikaners and other minorities such as the Coloureds, Indians, Chinese or Jews to’ adapt to their misrule and corruption or “Go Home”, implying that we, who have been born here, who hold legal citizenship through successive birthrights; should emigrate to Europe, Malaysia, India or Israel. That the only ones who have a legal claim to South Africa, all of it, are the blacks.

Blacks believe that they are ‘ indigenous to South Africa ‘ – but they are not: it was proven by DNA research. We are ALL settlers in South Africa. All South Africans are settlers, regardless of their skin colour, and their DNA carries the proof.
So says Dr Wilmot James, head of the African Genome Project, a distinguished academic, sociologist and, more recently, honorary professor of human genetics at the University of Cape Town.
Where is the archaeological proof that blacks ‘settled’ South Africa? Apart from a few scattered archaeological remains found of black culture in the far northern Transvaal prior to 1652, it is generally agreed that Blacks and Whites were contemporary settlers of South Africa. I use the term “Settler” loosely, because blacks never ‘settled’ South Africa, their presence was nomadic. Blacks were itinerants who traveled from place to place with no fixed home. Whole capital “cities” of grass huts could be moved if grazing was exhausted. They had no demarcated areas, no fences, no borders, no maps, no title deeds to proof ownership of any land apart from a verbal claim and mutual understanding that their temporary presence in a certain area in a certain period of time constituted “ownership” of the land. They left behind no foundations of buildings, no statues, no roads, no rock paintings, not a single proof of “settlement” of the land prior to the Whites settling South Africa.
The only rock paintings were made by the Bushmen and the Hottentots (Khoi-Khoi and San) in the caves they temporarily occupied. Blacks were pastoral-nomads and the Bushmen/Hottentots were hunter-gatherer- nomads. The UN has been asking the bantu ANC government to declare the Khoisan Bushman as indigenous First Nation status, the Bantu have refused for over a decade.

bantulies
Whites on the other hand built cities, rail roads, dams and a first world country comparable to the best in Europe and the new world.their legacy speaks of a people who intended to live there for a thousand years, if not eternity. To claim that ‘the whole of Africa belongs to Blacks’ is absurd.
It is like an Italian claiming the whole of Europe belongs to Italians, including Norway.
In fact, the pyramids of Egypt are proof of white settlement going back thousands of years – and also the Phoenicians settling Carthage and the Greeks settling Alexandria. The Arabs settled North Africa soon after the Prophet Mohammed died and the whites settled Southern Africa from 1652 onwards.
Today there are three Africa’s as Dr. Eschel Rhoodie calls it in his book “The Third Africa” (1968). Arabic up north, Black in the centre and Whites at the south. The White settlers of the Cape first came face to face with the Bantu around 1770 on the banks of the Great Fish River, 120 years after Van Riebeeck came to the Cape and 1,000 km east of Cape Town.

LIE NUMBER FOUR: Whites created black reserves and homelands.
THE TRUTH: Blacks created the homelands themselves, thanks to Shaka Zulu.
The common belief is that the ‘black tribes at the time were all living peacefully and in the spirit of ‘Ubuntu’ with each other in a virtual liberal paradise’. Nothing could be further from the truth. Shaka-Zulu was a genocidal maniac who wiped out some 2-million black people in the Defecane.
The Zulu tyrant Shaka, at the time was committing genocide against other tribes. Wiping out an estimated 2 million people in what is now known as the Defecane (great scattering). The Swazis and the Ndebeles fled back north in the direction of central Africa where they migrated from. The Sotho’s fled into the mountains of what is today, Lesotho. The rest of the smaller tribes huddled together trying to find strength in coalescing. That is the history of black South Africans that blacks prefer to ignore. that blacks drove other blacks off their land, not whites.
It is into this Maelstrom of black chaos that the Boers trekked in 1838. As far as they went they found large open sections of country uninhabited by anyone. Black tribes fleeing Shaka’s carnage grouped themselves into areas finding protection in concentrated numbers. This is how Sir Theophilus Shepstone later found the remnants of black refugees huddled together on self-created reserves. He just demarcated it in order to protect them from each other.

The creators of the Bantustans were not the Boers or the Whites, it was a black man called Shaka.”

unsa

Who has a right to land in South Africa? Bantu settlers or white settlers? Or the current communist regime and their cronies?

“Are White South Africans a “settler nation”? Or are Black South Africans a “settler nation”?
While reading the excerpt from South African president Jacob Zuma’s speech early in January at the ANC party, the following anonymously said quote came to mind:

“In the world we live in, history is being turned into modern day lies, and modern day lies are being turned into history”.

After twenty one years of public abuse by black politicians who assert that the white nation of South Africa is a “settler nation” that “dispossessed African land”, Jacob Zuma grabbed at the opportunity to address the problems of South Africa at the 103rd birthday party of the African National Congress. The expectations were not high, and many suspected that some favorite scapegoats such as Apartheid and racism would be mentioned.

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This Zulu president, amidst the electricity problems that faces South Africa for the first time in it’s modern history, took a full racist swing at the white population in general, stating that the problems of South Africa emerged along with the arrival of what he believes to be the first white man in South-Africa.
You must remember that a man named Jan van Riebeeck arrived here on 6 April, 1652 and that was the start of the trouble in this country”, Zuma told at the Friday evening event, where guests paid R3 million to sit at his table.
Needless to say that the date and name are the only historically correct segments of this statement, it must also be remembered that about 4 million Afrikaner people, descendants of Jan van Riebeeck’s groups, currently live in South Africa.

Taking the South African constitution into consideration, this whole scale condemnation of and contempt towards a substantial population group of South Africa, can be regarded as hate speech. Zuma is known for singing “Kill the Boer (white people)” at ANC rallies where he speaks of the ANC’s defeat of white colonial rule and the “settlers in our midst”.
Is the white Afrikaner nation a “settler nation” that dispossessed black people’s land, as black politicians so often assert?
To reach a valid historical perspective of the human relations pattern in present-day South Africa, one has to go back to the days of Columbus, close to five centuries ago.

In the 14th century, five years before Columbus set out on his trans-Atlantic voyage which resulted in the discovery of America, the Portuguese navigator, Bartholomew Diaz, reached the southern-most part of Africa. Here, in 1652 at the Cape of Good Hope, halfway between Europe and the East, the Dutch East India Company established a victualing station for passing East India men. The Dutch intended the station to be self-supporting, but this soon proved to be impracticable without allowing officials to settlers “free burghers”.

In 1657, the first free burghers were permitted to become private farmers, and in this way the foundations of a new nation in Africa were laid. The ranks of the original free men were subsequently strengthened by the people of Dutch, German and French descent. The term “boer” (farmer) was elevated to the honorable concept of “Boer”, with a wider connotation, viz.pioneer and settler. “Boer” became synonymous with the appellation “Afrikaner”, a term used as early as 1706 to denote people who had their roots in the African soil. Their permanent links with Africa were emphasized by the spontaneous and natural way in which the various 17th century Dutch dialects evolved into a new tongue, Afrikaans.

The only indigenous peoples to come in contact with the Boer-Afrikaner community, were nomadic Bushmen and Hottentot tribes. In the case of the Hottentots, deculturisation and the ravages of a series smallpox epidemics led to the disintegration of the main tribes and their subsequent progressive involvement with Negro and East Indian slaves, as well as with sailors, soldiers and people of other races, in the crystallization of a new ethnic group, the Cape Coloureds. A further element was admixed with the Cape Coloured community upon the arrival of Bantu tribes.

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The Bantu tribes, the forefathers of the majority of modern day black people in South Africa, are established mainly in the part of the continent south of the Sahara desert. Today many local Black sophisticates prefer to be called Africans, a misleading appellation considering that contemporary Africa is the mother continent of a large number of different ethnic, racial, linguistic and religious entities.

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The first meetings between Afrikaner farmers, or Boers, and black tribes took place during 1750-1770 roughly where the Eastern Cape is today. For an entire century, unaware of the existence of black tribes, Afrikaner farmers, who have mostly already been born on African soil, expanded their settlement to over 170 000 square kilometers (more than twice the size of Austria) of desolated and unoccupied land. Only towards the end of the 16th century did the Afrikaner farmers increasingly come into contact with Black tribes. In the 1770’s, some what thousand kilometers to the north-east of Cape Town, the Afrikaner migratory stream came into substantial contact with the vanguard of another migratory movement, namely the Xhosa-speaking tribe. They were the advance guard of a Black migratory movement from the vicinity of the Great Lakes of Central Africa. It would appear that by the end of the 15th century these tribes had moved as far as present-day Zambia, Zimbabwe and Mozambique. They probably crosses into the present-day Republic of South Africain appreciable numbers in the course of the 17th century – at about the same time as the Afrikaner free farmers’ settlement was expanding inland from the Cape of Good Hope.
The Black population movement into the area which later became known as British South Africa did not constitute a single coherent expansion.

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It took the form of successive waves of small tribes representing four different Black ethnic groups – Nguni, Sotho, Venda and Tsonga – responding to the push and pull of economic conditions and tribal conflicts. These migratory tribes simply moved to wherever nature offered most and enemies threatened least. Among these tribes the modern Western concept of a geo-politically defined country and land ownership was practically unknown. In the case of the white group this concept was strongly developed, and it was therefore quite natural for the Dutch Governor at the Cape to react to the White-Black contact situation by proclaiming in 1778 the Fish River as the official boundary between the two groups. This deliberate geographical demarcation, coupled with a recognition of the existence of specific Black territories, has remained the basis of the White-Black relationship pattern for many years.
After the Napoleonic Wars, the Cape of Good Hope was formally ceded to Britain. From 1806 on wards, relatively large numbers of English, Scottish and Irish settlers arrived at the Cape.

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The Boer-Afrikaner trekkers, increasingly dissatisfied with British colonial rule and with a growing sense of independence, decided to leave British jurisdiction. From 1835 onwards – at about the same time that the American pioneers undertook their famous westward trek – nearly a quarter of the Cape’s White population left the colony in a series of organized movements, collectively known as the Great Trek. The movement coursed over vast tracts of empty land. Areas that had been inhabited by migratory Bantu tribes had become depopulated as a result of the “Mfecane” (the “crushing”) – a series of Black, specifically Zulu, reigns of terror. For nearly a quarter of a century, there was an era of internecine warfare characterized by the most appalling bloodshed and devastation. The impis (regiments) of the Zulu king, Shaka, reigned supreme in Natal and even penetrated the Transvaal across the Drakensberg Mountains, leaving a trail of destruction, exterminating or dispersing all other tribes with which they came into contact. Shaka was not the only ruler responsible for this kind of destruction. Mzilikazi, one of his former lieutenants, broke away from the Zulu king and established a following of his own – the Matabele tribe.

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The Afrikaner trekkers who moved into Natal encountered various Zulu tribes. In February 1838 Piet Retief, the leader of the trekkers, negotiated with Dingaan, the Zulu king and successor to Shaka, and obtained from him a document granting the trekkers “the place called Port Natal, together with all the land from the Tugela to the Umzimvubu rivers…”. Before Retief and his party could return to their people they were murdered in Dingaan’s kraal. The written contract, was however retrieved by the trekkers and still exists today.
In the light of this, the claim that the Afrikaner nation is a “settler nation” is unfounded and historically incorrect. Considering that the first Whites at the Cape arrived only 32 years after the Pilgrim Fathers set foot on American soil in 1620, it would be fallacious to label present-day White South African society a still a settler or immigrant community.

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In fact, there were stable White communities in the South African interior before the founding of most of the Latin American republics. The first West European arrivals at the Cape antedated the colonization of Australia (1788) and New Zealand (1790) by 136 and 138 years respectively. The white community was also economically settled on unoccupied or negotiated land before the most and major black tribes even crossed the modern day borders of South Africa.

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Coming closer to the present time, one cannot ignore the significance of the White South African nation’s role in the two world wars, amongst others as a founding member of the the League of Nations and the United Nations.
The white South African nation has been created by the historical forces of more than four centuries. Measured against all accepted historical and demographic criteria, this nation exists as an integral part of the African continent’s socio-political structure.

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Today, the Whites of the Republic of South Africa rightfully consider themselves a permanent established African nation, geo-politically rooted in a part of the continent which has in the course of more than four centuries become their only motherland.”

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  • Rebellion

    Love it

  • EES

    Well done

  • pierremalan

    The basis is good and accurate. It is a pity the author then let his personal views spoil what could have been a very good article. I am an African, and will defend that statement to anybody. My ancestors received their first land grant in 1660.

    • Heinrich Ubuntu Nienaber

      Wish more people thought like you sir.

    • Dogbite777

      Oh, yeah? And you wouldn’t have, you pompous fairy?

      • pierremalan

        I yield to your well reasoned, intellectual argument.

  • tat2

    Nice history lesson

  • Lee Ferreira

    The article was very good and historically correct, but all these ANC inserts makes me hesitant to share with my overseas friends. It clearly comes over as hate speach! Clean it up with none of those pop-ups and I will gladly share it far and wide!

    • Saffa Coza

      Which pop-ups? Do you want to defend the ANC? Everything said about them is true so why would you want to lie to your friends abroad?

      • ConcernedSA999

        . . . . . . .. because you should stick to the facts, not all blacks are for the ANC!

        • Saffa Coza

          You are quite correct, maybe it is time we put pressure on the good ones to sort out the bad ones? Or is that only something spineless “moral” whites do?
          Some blacks are quite shocked at the xenophobic murders tacking place. You can see their impression that blacks were perfect is being tarnished…

          Like it or not bud, there is a race war going on in the world which even China and Japan take part in… just because you don’t want to take part does not mean your race won’t be attacked…

          We must put pressure on each to police their own…

          • Mli

            No its’ not only “moral” white’s who have been doing..I with others have been at war with most of the ANC’s polocies inparticular the one where they allowed white folk to negotiate a constitution which allowed them to keep the gains of aparthheid and colonialism..Xenophobia is a BARBARIC act which has no place or home in modern day society, just like apartheid and colonialism.

        • Dogbite777

          And just where are these blacks that we hear off, but never see? If they exist, they would represent 0.001 % out of the 65 million bantu people in SA.

        • Johan van Breda

          Yes some of them are EFF. Hearing small groups of them singing kill the boer and remove the boer on campus(UJ) and seeing the other blacks passing by raise their hands in support really makes you feel welcome. Even the DA screwed farmers with their support of the proposed land act(No more willing buyer or seller just a letter from the government and the land is their’s). This will be presented again later in the year as I have heard though and is still an unfinished process. Please don’t tell me you believe that our majority of rather poorly educated nation will not try to score something off this. Along with all this lets not forget how escalated everything has become in this year alone – Burning down of history publicly stating the white people are the problem from both leading black parties and you dare not call this propaganda! Our country has fallen from 1st world with the rand trading alongside the dollar to a rubbish 3rd world mess run by an ineptocracy with the rand trailing far behind any major currency.

  • Dominoes

    Good and accurate read. Thank you.

  • Saffa Coza

    You sound confused, here’s your pic….

    • ConcernedSA999

      Stuff like this does not help the cause, don’t paint them all with the same brush! really ………… this is the 21st century

      • Saffa Coza

        Who is them? Left wing? Blacks? Communists?

  • SideWaysView

    Brilliant – then by the same logic, all black Africans living on the continent of Europe should return to Africa and settle there – or does your pathetic tiny mind not make that distinction?

  • dorothea nortje

    Pity that only a select few will read this article … time to disseminate the truths it contains.

  • Mli

    Nonsense!!!..What a load of hogwash..left out one thing and that is before the white man came there were no borders seperating black states,until that white man J.Hawkins started systematically splitting us up and caused us to distrust each other.. the entire article is meant to create an opinion or idea that white’s have a place in Africa which is utter rubbish..it’s like the country was just there for the taking, wonder what rubbish they wrote up about the indeginous people of America (red indians), Australia (Abarigenes) & New-Zealand (Maori)..dont come give us that history given to you by your forefathers who were murderous, robbers & thieves in their attempts to glorify and expand whiteness..and the article is historically incorrect by saying the Mfengu’s and Amahlubi = Xhosa’s..No!!..Amaxhosa are direct decedents of the Khoi hence the “x” which dominates both languages..Amahlubi are still a tribe of their own as the case with Amafengu..ayingoma xhosa abobantu.

    • Saffa Coza

      No borders eh? Liar!!!
      The year 1822 marked the beginning of the spread of this dreadful military turmoil in central South Africa. This was the result of the flight from Shaka’s tyranny of three Zulu-speaking chieftains, Mpangazitha of the Hlubi clan, Matiwane of the emaNgwana and Mzilikazi of the Khumalo. This all started when a section of Shaka’s army, sent to invade Natal approached Matiwane’s domain on the Nyati or Buffalo river and put this clan to flight.

      When early in the winter of 1823 Mzilikazi crossed the Drakensberg into Sotho country, he chanced to move northwards into the Ermelo district of the Transvaal. What fate would have awaited him had he chosen to lead the Khumalo southwards into the Orange Free State?

      The previous year, 1822, a section of the Zulu army sent by Shaka to invade Natal, approached the Nyati and put Matiwane and his people to flight.

      In direct line of Matiwane’s flight was the Hlubi clan, occupying a strip of territory between the Nyati and the Tugela rivers. Matiwane took the Hlubi by surprise, drove them from their kraals, butchered them, took possession of their cattle and stores of grain and then murdered their chief and his heir. Some of the Hlubi fled to the south, but Mpangazita, second eldest son of the deceased ruler of the clan, raced off with his followers to the west and took refuge in the heights of the Drakensberg.

      The Xhosa interbred with Khoisan who they nearly annihilated. Had it not been for the arrival of the Europeans the Nguni would have made the khoisan extinct too like they did to all the other tribes in sub Saharan Africa…

      Do you want civilisation or not?

      • Mli

        I couldn’t help but notice that the years in which you or your history says this took place is the1800’s..why do you people continue to limit our history to the 1800’s? Where you fully know that whatever was documented was meant or designed to find a place for white’s in Africa and how they saved a certain people from been extinct (again glorifying whiteness or wanting to shy away from the evils committed under whiteness)..And as for Africa accepting non-black to safely live in Africa, I dont think black people have started the “Go back to Europe” chant however what we want is for white-people to first stop playing the victim, acknowledge the evil deeds of the past which have resulted in “white privelege” and to stop thinking that everything white is good..whiteness is what we are at war with..please stop trying to be our masters we know our history dont try educate us about it..”The land belonged to the khoi” as if the Khoi aren’t black people.

        • morton

          I think you need to do the following. if you dont like our version of history, then please show me your own written version…oooops sorry! then, you have to accept the fact that ALL humans have been on earth for the same length of time (us Whites dont come from the moon) that is Afican, Asian, European etc etc. so the FACT that we Europeans have built our ”privilages” over the last few thousand years (lets call it Western Standards) while you Africans are still in the late stone age! is no fault of our own. suck it up! you have invented nothing of any use to mankind! live with it!

          • Mli

            hahahahahahaha!! Morton I wouldn’t know about your people coming from the “moon” hahahaha!! however I do know that there is a theory and many scholars black & white have been debating this for years now, about where your people come from? As to why your people KILL and HATE so easily? As to why your people’s skin has a problem with the very thing which gives life (sun)? Why your people are so anti-nature? The theory is that a Professor named Yakuub (black) made your people from us (black genes) through a process of genetic engeneering, he grafted for about 600years and he finally got it right the result was a white person like you..Dr.Mendel “Father of Genetics” also supports the theory that from black you can make white as the white is the weaker of the two but you can’t make black from white genes i.e Albinos “Mendel’s Law”..Our first invention was you..traffic light, gas mask, self lubricating locomotives, paper, plastic, shaving cream, science, electric railway cars, railway telegraphy, ink, instant coffee, airbrake system & the first watch as early as 1754..want me to go on?Now you obviously wont get these names in your white concorted version of history we know this, because your people want others to believe that you are god’s greatest gift to humanity or humans but you not, your people are the worst thing to ever happen to humans..i’ll breakdown hu-man for you, you must’ve heard of the saying ” darker hu” “hu” means black..human in reality means blackman..

          • morton

            Sorry mate! check out those ”inventions” you mention properly! some very simple inventions can be accredited to black Americans, but noting on the scale you are trying so hard to convince me of! i am talking about Aficans, not blacks living in white countries piggy backing off the Western inventions! ie show me Sipho’s inventions please! and Whites are weak???? at least we could survive the Atlantic sea voyage!

          • Mli

            “Simple invention” you think the traffic light, gas mask & timer for the heart were simple invention? hahahahha!! you are in denial my friend just like your fore-fathers..And America wasn’t a white man’s country so dont claim it as you own..please!! You guys were given the mud in Europe and after senselessy killed and butchering each other throught the “dark-ages” you decided to move on to what your people termed “New World”..Mate untiI 300 years ago your peole thought the world was flat and if you sailed too far you’d fall over the edge, until the Romans educated your kind about the world who themselves had learnt from the Greeks who themseles had learnt from “Khemitians” that the world was round..I knew your white ignorance was going to make them American’s just like your people do with the Khoi and the San, overlooking the fact that they are BLACK and AFRICAN!!..they didn’t piggy-bank off Western inventions NOOO!!..the west has and still does piggy-bank on African intellegence then turn around and put their names on it and claim it as your own..Morton wherever your people have gone they have KILLED in their efforts to been the superior “being”..Your people have no humanity and if Hitler was the DEVIL to the Jews after 6 years, you can only imagine what your people have been to black people after 500+ years of lynching, deprivation, theft, rape and subjecting black people to all sorts inhumane and DEVILISH things and know what ,if Satan has or had a spawn..white people would be it.

          • morton

            Blah blah blah! hit me with facts please!!! not your own version of events, but the facts! the very fact that you are on this forum and typing in English, is thanks to the White man. now do us all a favour and don your beshu, wait for the next lightning bolt to start a veld fire for you (yes you have it Africans did not even invent fire!) and crawl back into your windowless beehive hut (guhla’standazo) with cow shit floor! throw some bones and talk to your ancestors. maybe they can help you?

          • Mli

            hahahahaha!!..I have been waiting for that explosion thank God it finally came!!..We know this mate your people hate the truth..iniyithandi inyani umntu xa eniika inyani nivele nimnike onke lamagama embhanxo kodwa lonto ayizuku siyekisa ekuthetheni inyani, yona sizoyithetha nide nisibulele ngoba nina ningonyana bakamtyholi.

          • Heinrich Ubuntu Nienaber

            Babawethu Osezulwini, is with all of us, regardless of race.

          • Heinrich Ubuntu Nienaber

            Who raised you? I am white, and let met just say: Ga o na moralo

          • morton

            None of your business! and i dont speak Sotho/Tswana??? but i will tell you im no city boy! if that is your concern? and no white man taught me to speak Zulu, if that answers your question?

          • Heinrich Ubuntu Nienaber

            Racism is devilish. And I am confused, because at first you make raciwt comments, then you oppose racial oppression. If you know so much about African history, don’t you know Moshoeshoe, the wise man who preached love in Southern African in the 1700s?
            I’m sure Moshoeshoe would agree: “If you only have love for your own race, then you only leave space to discriminate.”

          • wo0two0t1

            What world do you live in?

        • Shaun

          History is history. No one is glorifying whiteness just illustrating how it was okay for the Nguni tribe to wipe out everything else but not good that another tribe stronger stopped the carnage. It’s all good as long as the tribe is black?

    • Juan Olivier

      I see, so all the tribes owned all the other tribe’s land. Makes no sense. I think you are confused about the concept of borders.

      • Mli

        I dont expect it to make sense to you Juan..I mean your people want to own everything, however “UBUNTU” isn’t something that started in the 1800’s or 1900’s for that matter, it is part and parcel of been black..our people have been sharing the land amongst themselves thousand of years before your people came, as in point in case in most rural areas today.

        • Juan Olivier

          Yes Ubuntu, is that why the black tribes where slaughtering each other, because of Ubuntu? The fact is Ubuntu was a concept that only existed in the tribe, not across tribal lines. Each tribe had its land and that means there were borders, loose borders but still borders.

          • Mli

            Slaughtering each other because of “ubuntu”? “Fact is ubuntu existed in the tribe not across tribal lines”..Which tribe are you talking about? Yes we had “grazing-borders”..not tribal or racial borders.

          • Juan Olivier

            Yes showing for a fact your Ubuntu is bullshit, the black tribes killed and waged war against each other just like all the other nations on earth. Yes there where tribal borders. “grazing-borders” is just a nice word for you to avoid the fact that each tribe had its own land they used.

          • Mli

            I never at any stage say we didn’t wage wars..we did and aplenty however we didn’t launch a system wich opressesed and marginalise other tribes for 500+years..secondly “grazing-borders” are still in existent this day and as a rural boy I believe I have a better understand of it than say a random white guy like you Juan, who comes here and tries to make us black people glorify whiteness as if your peole were the greates thing to happen to Africa and the blackman..No Juan!!..your people to us black’s are what Hitler was or is to the Jews.

          • Juan Olivier

            Seems you are forgetting that blacks had slaves as well. The only reason why the white people ruled for so long was because they where literately almost better a everything, including warfare. Yes “grazing-borders” on privately owned land that has borders. And I never said white people where the best thing that ever happened to black people, If black people still preferred to live in huts I would not care. Comparing white people to blacks as Hitler to Jews makes no sense at all.

          • Mli

            Well if you were to read your own words that’s exactly what comes across, as for why they ruled for so long I wouldn’t go as far as saying “better” maybe the correct word would be “barbaric” they were barbaric enough to do what had to be done to cling onto power..I made the comparison to show you the magnitude of the ills your fore-fathers committed whilst getting you the comfy lifestyle you are enjoying today.

          • Juan Olivier

            False, you only saw what you wanted to see. If something is not there then it is not there. No the correct phrase is actually better at everything. Sure White nations has done a lot of barbaric things but then again you ignore the fact that this is not a unique treat to white people, the black nation where also barbaric. The only difference is the white nation got the upper hand and the black nations did not since at that time white nation where better at everything then black nations. You made to comparison out of ignorance since my forefathers never placed blacks in consecration camps nor did they try to commit genoside against blacks.

          • Mli

            Your forefathers did put us in camps!!..first it was on those boats where they packed our people up like sardines and shipped them off to be sold like animals do you know how many black people died from slave-trade?..secondly it was the homesteads, threw us into barren, undeveloped and unworkable land to die..well if it wasn’t genocide then the UN wouldn’t have called it “crimes against humanity”..”better at everything” the jury is still out on that and we are mere mortals so we can’t judge..

          • Juan Olivier

            “Your forefathers did put us in camps!!..first it was on those boats where they packed our people up like sardines and shipped them off to be sold like animals do you know how many black people died from slave-trade?..”
            = Am am referring to my forefather the Boere people. But ok if you want to refer to the Dutch, French and Germans then do not forget about your own black forefather who also kept and sold slaves. Making your black forefather no better than mine.

            “secondly it was the homesteads, threw us into barren, undeveloped and unworkable land to die..”
            = What a complete load of bullshit. They were put in homelands that were very fertile land, in fact some of the most fertile land in RSA suitable for grazing cattle and farming that they were use to doing, not to mention it was their historic homeland. And let’s not forget one of those homelands had the biggest platinum reserve in the world. So go tell that crap to someone that would believe you. If my forefathers could move to the old Boer republics where there was nothing and build it up to modern societies then so could the black people in those homelands.

            “well if it wasn’t genocide then the UN wouldn’t have called it “crimes against humanity””
            = You seem to assume crimes against humanity must mean genocide. Well it doesn’t. There was never an attempt of genoside against blacks in RSA by the Boers, Afrikaners or any other whites. You made this up.

            “”better at everything” the jury is still out on that and we are mere mortals so we can’t judge..”
            = I was referring to society and technology wise, this is simple a fact that the white nations where better at it the black nations.

          • Mli

            Your forefathers were the CREATORS of the system..do you really want to make a comparison? What do you know about homelands wena? I am from one of those homelands, where the majority of the people were thrown into 13% of the land, is this logic to you? Lets talk “genocide”..what do you think “Dr.Evil’s” job was huh? that monster was created by the Boer to extinguish the black nation as a whole, so done ever think that your peopl never contempleted and put into action plans to wipe us out wholesale..why do you think they had us cramped up into 13% of the country? with a country that had nuclear weapon in the 80’s..get where im going with this? Good.

          • OpenDebate

            Mli, do you think the old regime government planned on using a nuclear bomb to kill black people? That is so far-fetched, I almost fell off my chair. No man, you are an intelligent guy. Don’t make silly statements like that. Do you know what the fall-out is from a nuclear weapon? Half the country would have been devastated. SA’s nuclear capacity had nothing to do with bombing itself. I think you should tone down a little on your imagination. 😉

          • Mli

            well we do not know that..all we know is the deep hatred white folks(not general) have/had for us and lord knows if push came to shove..who knows what they could’ve done? we do know that a plan to kill us by the thousands was in place and tested numerous times, with Dr. Evil the engineer.

          • OpenDebate

            Eugene de Kock was a lunatic.

          • Juan Olivier

            “Your forefathers were the CREATORS of the system..do you really want to make a comparison?”

            = Prove it that my for fathers created slavery and while you are at tell me how my forefathers being the creators are worse then you’re forefathers keeping slaves while this for a fact shows you forefathers were no beter.

            “What do you know about homelands wena? I am from one of those homelands, where the majority of the people were thrown into 13% of the land, is this logic to you?”

            = I know enough to know those were not wasteland’s like you try to make them out to be. Sure the homelands were way too small but they were focused on historic ownership and self-governance. Other than being to small they were an excellent idea.

            “Lets talk “genocide”..what do you think “Dr.Evil’s” job was huh? that monster was created by the Boer to extinguish the black nation as a whole, so done ever think that your peopl never contempleted and put into action plans to wipe us out wholesale..”

            = What a complete load of horse shit. The development of chemical weapons does not prove the will to genocide. You have absolutely no evidence for this retarded claim.

            “why do you think they had us cramped up into 13% of the country?”

            = Simple, to keep most of the land and to let blacks rule over themselves. Not this horse shit theory of genoside you have no proof of.

            “with a country that had nuclear weapon in the 80’s..get where im going with this? Good.”

            Weapons development in the 80s and the entire century was and still is completely normal. I get where you are going, down the crazy lane with this horse shit theory of yours.

          • Mli

            Well Juan you’d be the first white person that I have encoutered or that i have heard off who denies that “slavery” was a white system..so I’ll live you to it..homelands= what do you think happens to the soil when it’s overgrazed and over-worked? It fails to produce and ends been a semi-desert..those are the results from your “excellent idea”..Again you seem to dodge the “Dr.Evil” part or role in the grand scheme of things, not chemical weapons but the man’s role (Eugene de Kock)..Again you see nothing wrong with one ethnic group keeping all the land to itself and confining the other to less..so i’ll live that to you once again..
            See Juan I know your kind..the kind that still carries the old-flag, the kind that wants their own state, the kind that hates blacks, the kind that still views a black person as a fifth of a human being..I know you very well..the kind that responds easier to hate, the kind that saw nothing wrong with opressing the native and actually think that the best thing to have ever happen to the k***** was a white person..I know you..the unprogressive bunch who sing “Die Stem”. I might be going “down the crazy lane” however you my friend are on a different lane of “crazyness” and I as the “crazy’ one wont engage another “crazy” person like me in this case you Juan, so it’s ok go on and spew your hatred S.A. has moved past people like you, you are a dinosaur to the current way of thinking and living and to what S.A. needs from its people..be gone back to your laager and tell your friends that S.A. has changed we might hate and we might fight each other but WE (black & white) wont let unprogressive people like you drag us down with you..NO I CHOOSE S.A.!!

          • Juan Olivier

            “Well Juan you’d be the first white person that I have encoutered or that i have heard off who denies that “slavery” was a white system..so I’ll live you to it..”

            = I am not surprised with all this leftist propaganda going around that says slavery was a white mans practice while the facts are slavery has been around for thousands of years and practiced by all races.

            “homelands= what do you think happens to the soil when it’s overgrazed and over-worked? It fails to produce and ends been a semi-desert..those are the results from your “excellent idea”..”

            = I think we would all expect the people that use the land to use their heads and not overgraze it and use the most fertile land in SA wisely.

            “Again you seem to dodge the “Dr.Evil” part or role in the grand scheme of things, not chemical weapons but the man’s role (Eugene de Kock)..”

            = Lie, I did address your false claim of chemicals weapons being made to genocide the black population of RSA. You are the one that faild the show that those weapons were made for genoside.

            “Again you see nothing wrong with one ethnic group keeping all the land to itself and confining the other to less..so i’ll live that to you once again..”

            = Another lie, I clearly said the land were way too small. Should a quote it for you?

            “See Juan I know your kind..the kind that still carries the old-flag, the kind that wants their own state, the kind that hates blacks, the kind that still views a black person as a fifth of a human being..I know you very well..the kind that responds easier to hate, the kind that saw nothing wrong with opressing the native and actually think that the best thing to have ever happen to the k***** was a white person..I know you..the unprogressive bunch who sing “Die Stem”.”

            = Excellent demonstration that you do not know shit. Yes I use a Boer flag since I am a Boer, Nothing wrong with using your nation’s flag. Only an oppressie minded left winger would have a problem with it. And yes we want our own state, also nothing wrong with it, again only an oppressie minded left winger would have a problem with it. And no I do not hate blacks or see them as a fifth of a human being, this clearly shows your intellectual dishonesty by lying or shows you ignorance. And no I do not respond to hate, I am not a left winger like you that’s ideology is built on hate. I never said there is nothing wrong with oppressing blacks or that the white man is the best thing that ever happened to black men. More proof of you intellectual dishonesty or stupidity. And yes we are not progressives, I would never belong to such an left wing ideology. So you have clearly showed you stupidity or intellectual dishonesty with this one, which one are you? And idiot or an lier?

            “I might be going “down the crazy lane” however you my friend are on a different lane of “crazyness” and I as the “crazy’ one wont engage another “crazy” person like me in this case you Juan,”

            = False, nationalism is not crazy, you are only a left winger that wants to force everyone to live your way while we want freedom for people to live like they want to. You left wingers are no different from the British when they came in here and tried to force everyone to live their way.

            “so it’s ok go on and spew your hatred”

            = What hatred are you talking about? Or is this just another case of you making things up like the black genocide that was planned by the Boers?

            “ S.A. has moved past people like you, you are a dinosaur to the current way of thinking and living and to what S.A. needs from its people..”

            = Yes this British created country does have a bad case of Marxism.

            “be gone back to your laager and tell your friends that S.A. has changed we might hate and we might fight each other but WE (black & white) wont let unprogressive people like you drag us down with you..NO I CHOOSE S.A.!!”

            = You left winger Marxists will not stop us from ruling over ourselves. You might oppress us with your Marxist ideology today but you will not keep us down with it.

          • Mli

            “I am not surprised with all this leftist propaganda going around that says slavery was a white mans practice while the facts are slavery has been around for thousands of years and practiced by all race

            = Oh yes slavery has been around for “thousands” of years no fool would deny that..the architechs of the system were white and from 1555 your people started systematically selling us to what you claimed to be the “new-world”..dont be bashfull when you are called out to claim what is yours as a white person..the opressor and slave master!! your forefathers never denied this.

            “I think we would all expect the people that use the land to use their heads and not overgraze it and use the most fertile land in SA wisely”.

            How do you expect millions of people to graze and make a proper living on 13% of the land? Do tell this about this amazing concept that your people had that made them think that we would be fine in our numbers on 13% of the land?

            “Lie, I did address your false claim of chemicals weapons being made to genocide the black population of RSA. You are the one that faild the show that those weapons were made for genoside”

            No i never aligned Eugene de Kock to “chemical weapons” I did align him to having been the sick-mind that your people were using in an effort to extenguish the black race and he did kill us by the hundreds!!..which is why he was imprisoned.

            “Another lie, I clearly said the land were way too small. Should a quote it for you”

            So you do acknowledge that the land “was way too small” however you dont see that resulting in the land been over-grazed? that right there exposes your intellectual bankcrupcy and hypocrisy.

            “Excellent demonstration that you do not know shit. Yes I use a Boer flag since I am a Boer, Nothing wrong with using your nation’s flag. Only an oppressie minded left winger would have a problem with it. And yes we want our own state, also nothing wrong with it, again only an oppressie minded left winger would have a problem with it. And no I do not hate blacks or see them as a fifth of a human being, this clearly shows your intellectual dishonesty by lying or shows you ignorance. And no I do not respond to hate, I am not a left winger like you that’s ideology is built on hate. I never said there is nothing wrong with oppressing blacks or that the white man is the best thing that ever happened to black men. More proof of you intellectual dishonesty or stupidity. And yes we are not progressives, I would never belong to such an left wing ideology. So you have clearly showed you stupidity or intellectual dishonesty with this one, which one are you? And idiot or an lier?”
            The use of a right-winged Afrikaaner group that “claims” to be the choosen race by God does show your unprogressive state of mind that your people(Boer) find themselves trapped in..Black people have not opressed your people matter of fact we allowed them to keep the profits and land gained during your people’s reign using that murderous system (Apartheid) which your people saw nothing wrong with..How do you deny the fact that your people saw and continue to see us as less human whilst you busy wanting your own state away from folks that look different to you? Am I an idiot or a liar? Mmmmhhh!!..I am a realist who knows the monster his people are facing.

          • Juan Olivier

            “Oh yes slavery has been around for “thousands” of years no fool would deny that..the architechs of the system were white and from 1555 your people started systematically selling us to what you claimed to be the “new-world”..dont be bashfull when you are called out to claim what is yours as a white person..the opressor and slave master!! your forefathers never denied this.”

            = Again with the claim whites created slavery with no proof. And I am not bashfull for stating the fact that slavery is not an exclusive white man thing and asked proof for you claim of white people creating slavery. My forefathers never denied it because no one claimed white people created slavery.

            “How do you expect millions of people to graze and make a proper living on 13% of the land? Do tell this about this amazing concept that your people had that made them think that we would be fine in our numbers on 13% of the land?”

            = Simple, how about they use their heads and not everyone graze and some people do something different. Or are you saying black people are to stupid to make a plan?

            “No i never aligned Eugene de Kock to “chemical weapons” I did align him to having been the sick-mind that your people were using in an effort to extenguish the black race and he did kill us by the hundreds!!..which is why he was imprisoned.”

            = Eugene de Kock killed political opponents, not random black people. I am happy you withdraw that stupid claim of the NP government working on a plan to kill all the black people.

            “So you do acknowledge that the land “was way too small” however you dont see that resulting in the land been over-grazed? that right there exposes your intellectual bankcrupcy and hypocrisy.”

            = Not really, it just shows your intellectual bankruptcy of going beyond grazing. As I said you must think black people are so stupid that they would over graze and get all their cattle killed.

            “The use of a right-winged Afrikaaner group that “claims” to be the choosen race by God does show your unprogressive state of mind that your people(Boer) find themselves trapped in..”

            = So because some Boer people believe that we all must somehow believe that. Im not even a Christian. In my entire live I have only met one Boer person that actually believes that. But yes we do not subscribe to your leftist progressive ideology, if the Christian God exists then thank God I am unprogressive.

            “Black people have not opressed your people matter of fact we allowed them to keep the profits and land gained during your people’s reign using that murderous system (Apartheid) which your people saw nothing wrong with..”

            = I am not talking about black people, I am talking about Marxists in general that want to force everyone to live according to their way. And as for you Mandela “allowing us to keep our stuff” this was pre negotiated before he took power and he knew very well not to make trouble with his backer the Soviet Union falling just 3 years earlier. He had no chose but to make a peace deal.

            “How do you deny the fact that your people saw and continue to see us as less human whilst you busy wanting your own state away from folks that look different to you? Am I an idiot or a liar?”

            = Some do hate blacks and some don’t, but your claim was that I hated black people. And what does self-rule has to do with anything? We would want self-rule no matter what colour your people are. Our will for self-rule has nothing to do with blacks; it has to do with us wanting a land with our own values and our own language.

            “Mmmmhhh!!..I am a realist who knows the monster his people are facing.”

            And yes you must be looking at you leftist Marxist ideology that is why you see a monster.

          • Saffa Coza

            I have yet t see ANY white people do what your black brothers did in Durban a few days ago. Sorry. I refuse to share a country with that,

          • Mli

            hahahaha!!..your people have been doing it for 400+ years maybe you should consider jumping out of your skin..

          • Guest

            I think that is a highly unfair statement.

            The problem here is groups collectively blame one another.

            I much like Shaun, grew up in a racially inclusive and collective family. I was first introduced to the concept of racism by a member of another race at the age of 13. Before that time there was just me, my friends and my family. All from different cultural backgrounds. Until this boy introduced me to the concept of racism I never questioned race. I never questioned why my grandmother was black and why some of my aunts and uncles were coloured and why I was white. It’s just the way it was.

            I don’t think it is fair to lay the blame on every single person of a collective group of people simply because they are of a different ethnicity. If a white person were to say that to ‘we’ as a collective group saw black people as a collective group to be the cause of all the problems in this country, there would be (and is) major outcry. I am very disturbed that you see white people as a collective Hitler figure. I am sure that every Jewish person does not see every Austrian born, German national as Hitler. Though I could be wrong, as I am not of Jewish decent.

            People of different colours should not be trying to control and destroy each other. It is defeatist no matter who does it. It solves no problems and it causes unrest and division. If anything groups of people should band together collectively against the major oppressive powers, which at this stage in the game is neither a black, nor white power. Black people feel marginalised in the corporate world, and many white people feel threatened and live in fear of our current government. If people could look past their biological differences and help each other fight the oppression collectively, we would have a far happier and more peaceful nation.

            For example. I feel I would be far more inclined to try my hardest to help a deserving black person in any way that I could in the corporate world (if I were in such a position), be it by protesting white supremacy in the work place or appointing him/her to a position of power or though any act that showed solidarity, if he/she was willing to lobby equally for my rights as a person instead of supporting the governments threats of genocide and ante-racism and hate against white people simply because they were not born black.

            After all, excluding anything non-biological, our differences are only skin deep. We all bleed red the same at the end of the day and the saving grace of this nation will be all groups learning to accept the biological similarities and embracing the cultural and social differences.

          • Juan Olivier

            You clearly misunderstood what I wrote. I did not deny white people did not do bad things, I am just pointing out this crap some black people believe that white people are evil and black people were these saints that never did anything wrong while in reality they were and are just as bad as white people.

          • ConcernedSA999

            Hi Mli, and all others like yourself, it is so easy to throw remarks back and forth of hatred, reminding each other that they are in fact black and white, reading all these comments written here, I can only shake my head in shame at humanity! We all have our different beliefs, Christians, Jews, Muslems, you name it, it is there. We all grew up different, dating back to our ancestors, for which neither can or should have to apologise for. There is sunshine for each and everyone out there, and there are a lot of people who agree with me, including our other cultured friends, yes I say friends because it is also about respecting others’ beliefs, I may not agree with them and I don’t like some of them, but they can live how they want to, I would prefer to distance myself from it because I don’t like it or agree with it, but to each his/her own. Why are we so hell bent on trying to make others’ live and behave like we do? I tell you why this fits in with all of us, simply because you want it that way, well sad news is it will never be, you other cultures can live as you want, just don’t try enforce your culture or beliefs on others! Then and only then can we live in peace and harmony. We need to get rid of the politicians . . . . . . . .. at the end of the day it is all about power, not so. I really am so sick and tired of the ‘other culture’ “crying wolf”! Simply because you have a different thought process, which I cannot understand, you would rather live in poverty than denounce Zuma, who has blatantly taken the food out of your mouths !!!! Shame on you, this is not what the struggle was about??? These young students, who probably never really experienced apartheid, now suddenly feel so thwarted by the Rhodes statue, even if they are 2nd year students already?? Your local municipalities, who steal your money for their own gains, instead of serving their people, it is disgusting, and then Zuma has the audacity to blame it on apartheid. What a lame excuse as apartheid was abolished over 20 years ago! Look at the schools you have to go to, did Angie & Blade not promise better schooling facilities, are you really happy with that, there are so many unwanted children for the sake of a grant, the MP of Health denies there is nothing wrong with the hospitals, really, look at your hospitals, almost non-existant, can you really say that you are satisfied with the progress thus far!! No man, I can carry on with this list . . . . . . . … This is how we reason, this is what we cannot understand about your culture, don’t cry wolf if you are not prepared to do something about your living/learning circumstances today, you put Zuma there and yet you are so dissatisffied with your conditions, that you resort to blaming apartheid! It really does not make sense. Yet, it is not all of you who feel or think this way . . . . . .. . . . there are other culture like minds who also are looking for a positive solution to a better life in SA!

          • Mli

            ConcernedSA999 I believe that by your use of the words “you”/”your” you mean “blacks”..You are unfortunately making the same mistake that all white people make and that is associating every black person with the ANC & Zuma..now for the record i did mention this to the other gents I was dealing with earlier in this topic..I never supported Zuma and I will never support Zuma I was one of those few black people who saw a flawed character and didn’t want to have such an individual leading a country as devise and with as much potential as S.A…I am also not asking or demanding an apology from white people for past crimes committed against my people as I have learnt that white people saw nothing wrong with apartheid this is depite the fact that they were the direct beneficiaries of that murderous system for many years till present day with the only white people that didn’t benefit from it all been Albinos..and we are OK with that, however I am against white & black people who are refusing to accept that the legacy of Apartheid is still very much alive and is a part of us this present day, I am against people of another ethnic group who are trying or attempting to be masters of another..I am also against white people who go around preaching “whiteness” as if its the greatest thing to happen to Africa or to humanity. I am fully behind white people who see the ills of the past (not an apology) and are now working hand in hand with black people and willing individuals of society as a whole in rectifying the past so that we can all walk hand in hand or side by side to the promised “Rainbow Nation” of Nelson Mandela..however that doesn’t mean we have to loose ourselves as black people to whiteness.

          • ConcernedSA999

            Mli, but this is exactly what I am saying, however I still don’t quite understand why you make the comment, that black people have to loose themselves to whiteness? I really think it is the manner in which you are trying to make your point, when I say you, I don’t mean you personally, because we are getting nowhere by endlessly insulting one another, you have as much right to go about your business here in SA as any other person living/born here! But there are factions still trying to keep us divided??? We are not phased about the Rhodes statue, but hell there are ways of doing it, and in any case to me it is irrelevant. We can work together, we can play together, but we can’t all be rocket scientists. As far as i’m concerned Julius is a walking time bomb, and he is just as criminal as Zuma. Surely we were supposed to learn from the past mistakes, hence a better country to live and work in, “Democracy”, BUT clearly there are factions who do not want this to happen. We, the people, are the only ones who can turn things around! The power struggle amongst the politicians, at the cost of the people, I don’t think so!! United we stand, divided we fall . . . . . .

          • Mli

            Well Shaka was definetly a “savage” he represented everything wrong about POWER..My point in this whole statue thing is very simple really..the statue was put there to celebrate the life of the man, not removing it is like us (blacks) are also celebrating his life and achievements most of which was dehumanising black people..there are indeed many factions that HATE the idea of democracy inparticular from your side(whites)..Nonetheless it is true “united we stand, divided we fall”

          • ConcernedSA999

            One last thing, i will have you know that the afrikaner/boere of South Africa were also suppressed by Rhodes for years. But we look past these things, after all it is only a statue. I don’t recall ever seeing South Africans standing around it, praising it, have you?? But a tourist attraction none the less, which is also income for us. You cannot speak for the majority of whites by saying that they do not want democracy, just like you corrected me when I assumed that most blacks were in favour of Zuma. Now we are talking to one another in a decent manner and this is how it should be, not so. Let’s forge on for a better South Africa, down with the politicians, they suck !!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Mli

            Yes I know for a fact that the Afrikaner community were the first to want it gone acouple of years back, although they seem to have withdrawn their challenge..if i came across as generalising white folk not wanting democracy, then it’s a statement i wish to withdraw that wasn’t what I was trying to get across..however on the same note there are challenges from both ethnic groups which cannot just swept under the carpet which unfortunately this Rhodes issue brought to the fore in VOLUMES!!..intolerance for one another and inparticular when it comes to issues of the past and tackling them head-on..to dismiss it as somethng of the past and that blacks must just get over it and move-on would be mischivous cause fact is the wounds of colonisation/apartheid are still very much fresh in the minds of those who bored the brunt of white oppression and continue to do so this day economically, socially and culturally..Politicians are nothing but crooks who steal our votes then after that steal our tax-money and build multi-million rands mansions.

          • ConcernedSA999

            Once again, i am not going to split hairs with you on this issue, point taken. What we don’t understand is the black youth of today some have been studying at Rhodes for over a yearyear already and only now the statue is a problem, what about their predecessors? Just asking? Why do you Mli feel this way? Are you aware that there are also poor whites and always has been, where I come from. It seems that there are far more poor blacks at this stage than in the past, but that is only because the ratio is now 10 to 1. The black population seems to think that the whites are still in the drving seat, economically, but my friend this is not the case, the middle class blacks have increased tenfold and doing very well. Therefore, together the people of SA can build a better future for all. 🙂

          • Mli

            It’s simple really..I am sick that 20 years later the black child is still excluded socially, economically & educationally im sick that when negotiations were taking place in finding a pathway to democracy and reconcilliation that the white people negotiated to keep a constitution that would allow them to legally keep the spoils of apartheid, including profits and land which EXCLUDED my people.and NO we dont think that the whites are in the driving seat, we know that they are they never relinquished power if they had we would have very few poor black people today..please dont tell me about the black middle class they are all enslaved to white capital, they can’t even pay-off their debts..White S.A. does this everytime their cage is rattled they give us black people platittudes and fake smiles and say “No..no we want to build a better S.A.together” “Apartheid was bad, i also didn’t support it” Really..whilst your people continue to sideline us from the mainstream economy? No the system is wrong and fundamentally that’s what at the centre and core of this uprising.

          • ConcernedSA999

            Hi Mli, just one question, what would you, the majority, have the whites do? (Other than leave the country) seriously, you have made statements here now, so this is how you people really feel about the current state of affairs. What is the solution do you think?

          • Mli

            Include black people in the economy PROPERLY..SHARE the economy with the black people that’s all we asking for.

          • Jakkie Grobbelaar

            Mli, its been 20 years, you have BEE, you are the majority. why are
            you still not part from the “mainstream” ? we don’t even think about
            other people (black or white) all we want is to be successful and enjoy
            life. the fact that the majority of blacks live in poverty is because of
            their own fault. example: when i was in school 23 out of 30kids in my
            class was black, after 1st break there was 2 maybe 3 left in the class,
            so once again you can be black or white if you don’t want to work or
            study you are going to have a bad time in life. why is there more and
            more kids standing next to robots and stop streets every day and aren’t
            in school ?

            you say white ppl benefit from apartheid, me and my
            family never got any thing from it, my grandfathers was poor, i was born
            in a poor family, and only thru hard work and dedication we are
            rich(not filthy rich, but above average).

            If the government want
            to remove the statues(on black and white), then i don’t mind, but let me
            be specific… If they take them and put them in museums then by all
            means, but if they get broken and destroyed well then that’s just
            fucktup and by removing tourist attraction, then let RSA lose more
            money, its not like im planning on staying in this land, so if the anc
            want to break it down let them.

            I don’t say whites are better and
            superior over blacks, that’s bullshit. I have a lot of respect for some
            black ppl who has build an empire with their hands from nothing with out
            the help of BEE. We have our different ways in doing things, we should
            just leave each other in peace and respect one another.

            This EFF
            and ANC ppl are a bunch of bafoons, i don’t vote because what ever party
            is ruling this country they do it only for their own pockets.

            this
            country is becoming a dump, a total mess, a waste land if things are
            going on like this. Lets get rid of all the statues’ its more important
            than a women/girl/baby being raped, killed, starf to death of hunger and
            cold. Sure remove the statues and place them in museums, but fuck get
            the priority straight. its like plucking the feathers of a chicken while
            it is still an egg, useless and pointless.

            still wane go on about this ? pffft my spelling is corrupt like zuma

          • Jason Botha

            Hi Mil. I would happily embrace a president that is not white and would vote for him/her, if I believed in what the party stood for and the party had a good reputation of full disclosure, were incorruptible (to the extent that a political party can be) and have the interest of the population as a whole at heart. The DA will soon have a party leader of colour and I embrace this, as the majority in a City/Suburb deserves to rule, provided the above is met. Most companies run by white people are whites who worked in those companies for 20+ years and only got there through exceptionally hard work, missed children’s events, divorce due to prioritising their work over family, etc. BEEE gives black people all this without any effort other than a degree, without much experience, so who is more discriminated upon here? White people are generally not getting the good jobs anymore, despite what you may think, due to quotas, AA and BEE. I work with people of all races and have a good relationship with them. I’m really glad to see that more and more people of color are joining the workplace in professional positions and doing well at their jobs. The bottom line is that everyone that is willing to study and work hard does have an opportunity to make a good life for themselves in SA.We are the only country in the world where the minority are economically disadvantaged, due to race.

          • Mli

            Howzit Jason..hahahaha!!..the name is “Mli” not “Mil” nonetheless that’s not the point coz you sound like a good bloke and I’ll engage you accordingly..first I want you to be clear about where I stand, this is not my way of attacking white people simply based on their colour as that would be ignorant very ignorant..BEE Jason was a system designed to redistribute wealth across the board and racial lines as it was clear for all to see and history has taught us this much that the previous system of governance was designed to empower a certain race only and unfortunately “whites”.. unfortunately this very same system was hijacked by the very same captain of industry who had created it..I do think it would be barbaric and unfair to throw a white person out of a job simply because you want to have someone of colour in that job more especially if that person of colour doesnt have the skills for that job..let’s not talk politics as my stance on the matter is that the very foundation of politics is corrupt.

          • ConcernedSA999

            . . . . . . and you are wrong when you say that white people saw nothing wrong with apartheid! There are plenty of white people who did not agree with apartheid but there were other factors, between the British and the Afrikaner that also played a roll, it was the British who interfered here in africa for many years, hence there was division between the english and the afrikaner for many years . . … . . . . . . and to add insult to injury, there was Shaka . . . . .. . . . . .

          • Dogbite777

            Now Mr Mielie is changing his story – again. This is exactly how the black peoples fabricate their oral history. It’s whimsical, is unverifiable and is made up on the go, as the fancy strikes. This how it will go: Some fanciful story of of a noble induna would be presented, with great gusto and imagination, and as soon as it is shown to be fanciful or questionable, immediately you are attacked for “not understanding”, or the story would be adapted to side-step the lie presented. It’s a sly and unscrupulous way to assimilate pieces of history gleaned from other peoples and tribes, as well as being made up. Blacks prefer the history to be unverifiable to avoid any scrutiny thereof, as it would not stand muster. It’s not only pathetic, but seriously dishonest and sly manipulation.

          • =isKey

            I think that is a highly unfair statement.

            The problem here is groups collectively blame one another.

            I much like Shaun, grew up in a racially inclusive and collective family. I was first introduced to the concept of racism by a member of another race at the age of 13. Before that time there was just me, my friends and my family. All from different cultural backgrounds. Until this boy introduced me to the concept of racism I never questioned race. I never questioned why my grandmother was black and why some of my aunts and uncles were coloured and why I was white. It’s just the way it was.

            I don’t think it is fair to lay the blame on every single person of a collective group of people simply because they are of a different ethnicity. If a white person were to say that to ‘we’ as a collective group saw black people as a collective group to be the cause of all the problems in this country, there would be (and is) major outcry. I am very disturbed that you see white people as a collective Hitler figure. I am sure that every Jewish person does not see every Austrian born, German national as Hitler. Though I could be wrong, as I am not of Jewish decent.

            People of different colours should not be trying to control and destroy each other. It is defeatist no matter who does it. It solves no problems and it causes unrest and division. If anything groups of people should band together collectively against the major oppressive powers, which at this stage in the game is neither a black, nor white power. Black people feel marginalised in the corporate world, and many white people feel threatened and live in fear of our current government. If people could look past their biological differences and help each other fight the oppression collectively, we would have a far happier and more peaceful nation.

            For example. I feel I would be far more inclined to try my hardest to help a deserving black person in any way that I could in the corporate world (if I were in such a position), be it by protesting white supremacy in the work place or appointing him/her to a position of power or though any act that showed solidarity, if he/she was willing to lobby equally for my rights as a person instead of supporting the governments threats of genocide and ante-racism and hate against white people simply because they were not born black.

            After all, excluding anything non-biological, our differences are only skin deep. We all bleed red the same at the end of the day and the saving grace of this nation will be all groups learning to accept the biological similarities and embracing the cultural and social differences.

          • =isKey

            I think that is a highly unfair statement.

            The problem here is groups collectively blame one another.

            I much like Shaun, grew up in a racially inclusive and collective family. I was first introduced to the concept of racism by a member of another race at the age of 13. Before that time there was just me, my friends and my family. All from different cultural backgrounds. Until this boy introduced me to the concept of racism I never questioned race. I never questioned why my grandmother was black and why some of my aunts and uncles were coloured and why I was white. It’s just the way it was.

            I don’t think it is fair to lay the blame on every single person of a collective group of people simply because they are of a different ethnicity. If a white person were to say that to ‘we’ as a collective group saw black people as a collective group to be the cause of all the problems in this country, there would be (and is) major outcry. I am very disturbed that you see white people as a collective Hitler figure. I am sure that every Jewish person does not see every Austrian born, German national as Hitler. Though I could be wrong, as I am not of Jewish decent.

            People of different colours should not be trying to control and destroy each other. It is defeatist no matter who does it. It solves no problems and it causes unrest and division. If anything groups of people should band together collectively against the major oppressive powers, which at this stage in the game is neither a black, nor white power. Black people feel marginalised in the corporate world, and many white people feel threatened and live in fear of our current government. If people could look past their biological differences and help each other fight the oppression collectively, we would have a far happier and more peaceful nation.

            For example. I feel I would be far more inclined to try my hardest to help a deserving black person in any way that I could in the corporate world (if I were in such a position), be it by protesting white supremacy in the work place or appointing him/her to a position of power or though any act that showed solidarity, if he/she was willing to lobby equally for my rights as a person instead of supporting the governments threats of genocide and ante-racism and hate against white people simply because they were not born black.

            After all, excluding anything non-biological, our differences are only skin deep. We all bleed red the same at the end of the day and the saving grace of this nation will be all groups learning to accept the biological similarities and embracing the cultural and social differences.

            I am deeply saddened that this is the result of ignoring the real oppression.

          • Mli

            isKey the comparison was made out of a desire to express the magnitude of the ills black people have encoutered in the hands of white people throughout the centuries..however i get your point of discomfort in my statement and as a fellow country-man would like to apologise to you and those i could’ve offended in the process..I also dont support a governement that calls for “genocide” against another ethnic group and I am happy to be in S.A. as that is not the case, we are not all that stupid to take Zuma’s words seriously every word he utters exposes how “intellectualy bankcrupt” the man is..how can anyone take the man seriously?

          • Shaun

            So why did one tribe slaughter another,steal their cattle and rape and steal their women and belongings? You’r clueless.

          • Mli

            “Slaughter”? dont tell me about intra-race conflicts and competition..your people had them too if I recall well, “dark-ages” which lasted a number of years actually MANY YEARS hey and it literally put’s to shame our “patchy” history which white people love throwing in our faces as if we dont know our own stories or history simply because you say you wrote it now its supposed to be correct and true..NO..also more recent for your memory (Anglo-Boer war) was a result of “intra-race wars”..so No Shaun i am clued-up and that irritates the living out of you.

        • Shaun

          Being wiped out by the Nguni tribe was sharing?

          • Mli

            Im not Nguni so I can’t relate..however the real question is why do white people like talking about black history as if you guys know anything about.?

          • Shaun

            So then you are only interested in one tribe, what about the other 6999 tribes or doesn’t your version of Ubuntu reach that far?
            Next is why we talk about it? Research has been adequately carried out over the years so as to ascertain a full overview of world events. Us “whites” as you put it have an interest in this kind of mundane western thinking we call knowledge or education. How do you understand and empathise with people you know nothing about. I have black children and was part of this struggle you claim to know so much about. I lived in Zola 1 in Soweto for much part of 1986/7 and have much black family. I was adopted as their “white” child and they were adopted as my “black” parents and family.
            I am a child of Africa with as much right to this land and services as everyone here who claims to have entitlemeet.
            The difference I suppose is that I never sat on my lazy ass when opportunity struck, instead I got working and with my success paid it forward and started to help struggling “black” youth in an attempt to educate and empower them to reach heights that I found possible. No matric and no help but the change was in my mindset. Despite meeting individuals who really pissed me off due to believing they were owed a free hand out I continued to do what I believed right even though it is the common belief that this new generation is owed? You are owed nothing and opportunity is there for the non lazy but the mindset is not that you are inferior the mindset is you are owed. You are equal if you choose to believe it or do you rather want to live life as a parasite? Go for the grant and play the entitled victim. Pathetic, I would not be proud or feel equality if that was my stance on life either.
            man up, grab hold of the opportunities that present themselves and make something of your life. Your history is ready to be written.

          • Mli

            Shaun..you are purposely missing the point..my point here is that as a white person no matter if u lived in Zola for 20yrs but the mere colour of your skin in S.A. gives you 100m kick-start as compared to the “black family” that adopted you..the system is S.A. gives your people a better chance of making it than the other, this is something your people should stop tip-tooing around..the people with the money have buying power and employing power, their tastes and norms dictate who get employed and what products and media get sold..in .S.A. 73% of senior management is white so guess whose cultural norms, social networks and what social capital counts?..as far as lineage is concerned im as proud as they come, yearly I take part in my people cultural events..theza, mgubho & kwelusa amakwekwe entabeni.

          • Shaun

            Bullshit. My being English speaking was a disadvantage in the old SA as it is being white now. You throw “you people” around loosely and with much prejudice. I was not employed but rather got off my unqualified ass and worked hard In a trade that is conservatively black/coloured. I am a contradiction to your way of thinking. Black hair care industry in Soweto is where i started and around the country. You are absolutely clueless in your arrogance. You are looking to demographics of corporate and that is not traditionally where the “black man” has made his mark. Now more than before due to BBEE and it’s likes the corporate is the”blackmans” playground. You have a chip on your shoulder that will drown you eventually. People who have buying and employing power? You are clueless! There is more cash and buying power in the black market than what you actually have a clue of. You’re pumping your gums here without a true com and and sadly showing your ineptitude

          • Mli

            “English speaking was a disadvantage in the old S.A.” BULLSHIT!!..this is what english speaking white’s like yourself like doing when dodging the bullet.. you like or seem to think that you are a better sort of white than the Afrikaaner..and you want to talk “ignorance” simply because you lived n Soweto for two years and that makes you an expert in black difficulties and hardship you don’t want to accept the fact that your entire life has received a leg-up based on the greater or lesser degree on other people’s suffering..because pretending that we are equal is the easiset way to sweep your unfair history under the rug, you talk about “buying power” been more black than ever that is laughable to say the least the people you talking about are the middle class and they are riddled in debt, dont talk to me about BBEE that system just like the one before was hi-jacked by the very same captains of industry..but what is this obsession about BEE or BBEE? Because somehow you can benefit from 350 years of affrimative action but you can now ACT all condescending towards us blacks for doing it for 5minutes? what’s with the hypocrisy?

          • Shaun

            You don’t read well. Did I say I was superior to the Afrikaans or did I say that I was discriminated against by the Afrikaaner? I said I was discriminated against. Youp answer absolutely disclosed your ability as you have not addressed a thing. Discourse with you a waste of time.

          • Mli

            I also didn’t say you did(superior) it appears that your reading needs work..”you like or seem to think that you are a better sort of white than the Afrikaaner” .. “leg-up” you might not have gotten it directly but either way the system always does be it you aware on not because the cultural norms are more white (the people with the buying power and employing power)..I applaud you on your courage for standing up against a ruthless system.

          • Shaun

            You also make a claim for your rights but don’t have a clue about your lineage? Maybe this is the reason for a lack of pride?

        • Ryan Papsak Uhlig

          Really?? i suppose someone forgot to tell shaka about that. The population majority that is in complete political control still needs and affirmative action systems and laws to to compete with the minory (7%) due to a complete failure to make an enriching infratsructure is sign of a completely failed government, there has been no governance and the country is falling apart, over 20 years down the line and the ANC (black liberation government) still blame white people for the economy, low agricuture turnover in the RURAL sector, a failing power structure, even though a poor whitey went and told them over 10 years ago that the growth of the population means new power stations will be required by 2010-2012, but got told to go away, 2010 came, power cuts and blackouts came, now they rushing to build new power stations, you keep saying that white people dont understand this and dont get this point etc, we see clearly how this country that we fought for is being destroyed by black rule, look at the african continent and tell me where any of these countries has flourished since BLACK “leaders” took control…………… ALL BURIED IN POVERTY AND CRIME, but then look at countries that have white leaders, 95% of them are thriving, i can see the logic on who i want to run my country, im so sick of the horrific service received from all sectors of government

          • Mli

            Don’t tell me about “affirmative action” or BEE alright cos these were very good initiatives until it got hijacked by captains of industry the very same people who designed it..I’ll take this as “white ignorance” associating every-one with the ANC simply because they are black..on the same note I will never apologise for the fact that the ANC saved us from a white savage government that so many of you would love to have return..we will continue to blame the white man as long as he occupies 73% of senior management despite the fact that he is only 7% of the population..yeah African countries are falling apart after your fore-fathers looted the country and created a system where they can keep their ill-gotten gains and still make more..or better yet after removing white folk who had back-tracked on an agreement, have your country sanctioned by all global powerhouses to a point where the economy collapses and then turn around and blame the president of that country for collapsing the system..madness!!

        • ChantOlive

          Explain “UBUNTU” in the context of all the genocide that was happening before Europeans arrived? U share your land with me while I share my spear with you????

          • Mli

            Well thats the thing..we have been explaining “ubuntu” to your people for 21yrs now( not counting the 400+yrs before that) and still you not getting it, so no matter how hard i try you still wont get it..let me try it this way, we havent chased your people to the see yet..we have allowed you guys to stay and keep the gains of colonialism/ apartheid irrespective of how you got them..want me to continue? it wasnt stupidity as your people would like to believe.

          • ChantOlive

            but other Africans are being killed and run off their businesses, farmers are murdered weekly… how is that Ubuntu…. ??? So you’re saying “We won’t kill you all at once… just watch you die one by one”? Is that Ubuntu? Is what happened in Durban this week Ubuntu? Martizburg today? Ubuntu?? really?
            The very same land your ancestors raided and took over …the very same land was sold by your grandparents and ceded to Afrikaner boers… and yet now today you praise the ubuntu of your ancestors…. and bemoan the fact that someone else owns the land?

          • Mli

            What is happening in the places you mentioned isn’t “ubuntu” its BARBARIC and reeks of “self-hate” which is something that manifested itself over the years of white-rule and been told that (you can’t tell a person the same thing for 100’s of years and not expect them to believe it eventually-“power of psychosis”)..the land wasn’t sold it was done by force way before the land act of 1913 which regulated the acquisition of land by natives aka blacks.

          • Mli

            They were “intra-tribal conflicts” and all races have had them and labelling them as “genocide” is incorrect and exegerated, here is a free lesson for you on the meaning of the word “genocide”..”to systematically destroy another race or ethnic group”..your race did this to us for 350+ years and till this day your people wont have it labelled as “genocide” but as “civiliazing the savage” how absurd!!..hahahahahaha!!

          • ChantOlive

            If my race was guilty of genocide…then by your very definition you would not be here to talk about it – idiot. Whites were guilty of many things – apartheid, slavery, etc. but not genocide…. your existence is proof of that

          • Mli

            OMG!!..I’m get tired of educating you people on your own language “Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aimed at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves”..you used these word “slavery, apartheid” do you see any resemblace to the two? Ooooh and “idiot” no..no..not nice ChantOlive, debate me dont insult after all we have to come out of this a STRONGER PEOPLE..black & white.

        • Dogbite777

          Eiiiishhhh!! I’ve seen your “ubuntu” k@k and BS in Kwazulu Natal, wena! It is a load of crap invented to confuse the white liberals, wena. But peopel like me, eish!, we are too cleva for you, wena, too cleva. You must learn, I will teach you, wena! Eish!

          • Mli

            What is happening in KZN isn’t “ubuntu” but the homecoming of all the years white liberals like yourself have been teaching to black people (self-hate)..No!! people like you aren’t too clever for people like me, they infact make us hate the ugly white side people like you carry around as a chip on your shoulder and represent.

          • OpenDebate

            Mli, Xenophobia has nothing to do with white people teaching blacks to hate themselves. Ag nee man, how should I take you seriously when you make ridiculous statements like that. Xenophobia is an act of fear and desperation, because people who are struggling are seeing foreigners thrive. Two cents on that: 1. The ANC government is failing these people, because our borders aren’t managed properly. 2. Foreigners also come here with nothing, yet they thrive… maybe we should learn from that?

          • Mli

            It has absolutely everything to do with “self-hate”..why dont they attack white foreigners then? “Self-hate” fear and desperation have nothing to do with it, the name-calling should ring a bell “Makwerekwere” where do you think that comes from..”desperation” or “fear” as you say? No it’s a hate word or name just like the “k”-word.

          • OpenDebate

            Makwerekwere is not a word I am familiar with. If black people use the word to refer to other black people, it has nothing to do with other races. And by suggesting that only white people have evil tendencies – therefore it is the white man’s fault when black people kill each other – is a fallacy. We are all human, and human nature is sometimes evil.

          • Mli

            I am not putting all the blame on the white people for this nightmare that would be stupid..the nature of our previous system amongst other factors contributed to us been here is what im saying..S.A. has always viewed people from other parts of the continent as “foreigners” and the continent as “Africa” as if we live in a different continent or place, this was the norm in the previous government..however post-apartheid that state of mind wasn’t put to bed instead it continued and together with the failings of our current government the frustration was alwasy going to boil-over onto those viewed as outsiders.

          • reading all your comments here Mli… I deduced that you’re a closet racist and black supremacist.

    • Shaun

      Back up your opinion so we can check your accuracy. Gum bouncing isn’t too good a proof.

    • Dogbite777

      You are just like most black people and bantus in SA – full of anti-white BS! And too lazy to google and read for yourself.

    • Dogbite777

      Nonsense!!! Of course there were borders separating black tribal lands (states? That’s being too optimistic and telling stories again, trying to elevate these tribal lands to “states”) from one another. If a stranger from another tribe would dare to venture into tribal lands of another, he/she would be killed or taken prisoner and then killed. Must I teach you your own “history”, or do you prefer your own made-up version? You must learn, I will teach you, wena!
      Another thing: Your forefathers were the murderers and rapists of the Voortrekkers and their families, killing small children by smashing their heads against rocks during their cowardly attacks of thousands of “oh, so brave!” painted and feathered “warriors” against a small handful of Voortrekkers. No, no, wena, we are not all so stupid to lap up your manipulated oral history as fact. You must learn, wena, I will teach you!

      • Mli

        Rubbish!!..im a rural boy and the systems that was used by our forefathers is still in place today.. im from the hlubi tribe and where im from we have the sotho’s to the south and thembu to our west with amapondo up north and yes we venture into each other’s grazing-land with our cattle and know what? we dont go murdering each other, however our cattle get sent to their kings place where you are charged a fee for your mis-conduct..not death that’s BARBARIC!!..Again you trying to educate me about my history which I know and have studied, both the one your people love lying about and the one passed down from generation to generation..No Dogbite777 I will not believe your concorted white version of African History which wants us to believe that “slavery”& “barbarism” are the foundation of African society..when I said “African” I meant “black”..you dont have to believe me and know what you dont even have to engage me as the ” black-fool” that you think i am, cause at the end nobody is going to know the difference..leave us black people to our foolishness..not all that’s written down is true, and the majority were LIES!!..something your people are very good at.

  • GV

    And where should the black Europeans go? Everyone came from Africa, so everyone has the right to live here..

  • Juan Olivier

    It does not mean because you come from one part of a region you somehow own the entire region. Who thought you this retarded reasoning?

  • thegeek

    Where are the references?

  • ConcernedSA999

    We really could do without silly, mindless comments like this, if you cannot contribute constructively, go do some homework . . . . thanks

  • ズネク 大刀

    How accurate is this? Where do you cite your “facts” from? Your writing seemed to be more biased rather than professional. Your use of anti-anc/Bantu posters further removes from professionalism and simply adds to bias. How do we know you didn’t simply add your own lies because of your biased views?
    Give us the proper resources or the references you got your “information” from

    • Saffa Coza

      I assume that is to counter the overtly left blowing political wind. An ailment the entire world is suffering under.

      • ズネク 大刀

        I was asking where the references for these so-called facts are, not “why are you writing this to begin with”

    • Andries van der WALT

      Go and Google “Bantu Migration” and you will find a vast number of articles on the Bantu Migration that was the biggest migration of people in the world. Just do your own research and you will find the sources. I have read articles about the Bantu Migration found on Goodle long before this article ever appeared. I am sure that the first part of this article comes from articles on Google.

      • ズネク 大刀

        Again I was asking fir his references, not a “google it for yourself”

        • Dogbite777

          Go google the resources yourself, you lazy prick!

          • ズネク 大刀

            Very professional. It has nothing to do with being lazy. I want the writers resources so that I can cross-reference.

          • Dogbite777

            Go google the resources yourself, you lazy little ….. whatever.

    • Dogbite777

      Go find the resources yourself, you lazy prick!

  • Saffa Coza

    12 Nations CAN NOT live together in one country. It is insane, will never work and is genocide.

  • Jakkie Grobbelaar

    Mli, its been 20 years, you have BEE, you are the majority. why are you still not part from the “mainsteam” ? we don’t even think about other people (black or white) all we want is to be successful and enjoy life. the fact that the majority of blacks live in poverty is because of their own fault. example: when i was in school 23 out of 30kids in my class was black, after 1st break there was 2 maybe 3 left in the class, so once again you can be black or white if you dont want to work or study you are going to have a bad time in life. why is there more and more kids standing next to robots and stop streets every day and aren’t in school ?

    you say white ppl benefit from apartheid, me and my family never got any thing from it, my grandfathers was poor, i was born in a poor family, and only thru hard work and dedication we are rich(not filthy rich, but above average).

    If the goverment want to remove the statues(on black and white), then i don’t mind, but let me be specific… If they take them and put them in museums then by all means, but if they get broken and destroyed well then thats just fucktup and by removing tourist attraction then lets RSA lose more money, its not like im planning on staying in this land, so if they anc want to break it down let them.

    I dont say whites are better and superior over blacks, thats bullshit. I have alot of respect for some black ppl who has build an empire your their hands from nothing with out the help of BEE. We have our diffrent ways in doing things, we should just leave each other in peace and respect one another.

    This EFF and ANC ppl are a bunch of bafoons, i don’t vote because what ever party is ruling this country they do it only for their own pockets.

    this country is becoming a dump, a total mess, a waste land if things are going on like this. Lets get rid of all the statues its more importants than a women/girl/baby being raped, killed, starf to death of hunger and cold. Sure remove the statues and place them in musuems, but fuck get the priority straigt. its like plucking the feathers of s chicken while it is still and egg, useless and pointless.

    still wane go on about this ?

  • Mli

    Moenie worry nie dis mos nie onse taal nie..Jakkie..hahahahaha!!..ok first Jakkie lets not even talk about BEE, because wealth redistribution got jacked by the same white captains of industry who created the system in the first place proof of that is the 73% of senior management in major co-operations ..secondly culture.. the people with the money have buying and employing power, their taste and norms dictate who gets employed and what products and media get sold..this is whiteness for years!!

    • OpenDebate

      Mli, I hear this all the time – people saying that the BEE system has somehow been misused by whites and I have always wondered how those guys come to that conclusion. Well, I see now it is because they are looking at an end result, and because we have white people in management positions, it MUST be because they are scheming and conniving… Let me enlighten you a bit… During the Apartheid years many, if not most white South-Africans had government positions – either in municipalities, schools, hospitals and other positions. These positions paid well, and many did not even bother to get proper degrees, since it was not mandatory. This changed after BEE was instated and now almost all those positions are filled by black people. Great. So why aren’t they thriving like white people that previously owned those positions? 1. Jobs were “created” simply to employ a black person, meaning that a job that was managed by one person in the past, is now often filled by 3 – 4 people. Hence, the salary is not the same. 2. Government systems are failing because of bad management. Just have a look at our hospitals and municipalities that were thriving and are now in debt. So… again the salaries are cut. 3. When white people lost their jobs in government positions, they did not went out into the field and sat on a rock… no… they started their own businesses. All of a sudden they had to become entrepreneurs. Many started out with NOTHING – I know a guy that started a chicken farm from his own backyard. Today he employs a lot of people. This is where the white capital you see today, have emerged from. Sure, there were whites that kept their farms and others that had companies and did not work in government, but had the farms and those companies been eliminated, the economy would have collapsed. Just as it will if you simply redistribute land without keeping the farm, which is a business, in tact and sustainable. Surely you can foresee that? So, what you and a lot of black people are suggesting, is that white people, who started businesses on their own and out of desperation, MUST simply give part if not all of their hard work away to a person who simply choose to shrivel up under chip on his shoulder. If the latter is not what you are suggesting, please elaborate on your statement that the “economy must be shared” and how you would go about to do that in practical terms. Then to your statement that black middleclass are in debt because of the so-called white capital system, I would urge you to ask any of those guys what the first thing is that they bought with their pay cheque… A car or a property?? There is no need for debt, if you know how to manage your money well. I personally have debt and I am middle class. But I don’t drive the latest Mercedes and the last piece of clothing that I bought was in 2010 – my soccer world cup scarf. Don’t blame whites if a black guy cannot manage his money. Then lastly, define “whiteness”. What exactly does the term comprise to you? Remember – it is a term that you and/or other black people created. I have never heard of a thing such as “blackness”. Perhaps black pride and black culture, which are both positive terms…

      • Mli

        This is how the system was hijacked..you have the head of municipality advertise a tender to build whatever (e.g. bridge) however the minimum requirement for a company to do the job is 10yrs experience which completely left out black owned businesses as they were excluded by the system( apartheid) which empowered white companies ONLY..the consultant for the job is white as they are the captains of industry they dictate which company gets the job by manipulating the tendering system and the “terms of referene” for that job so that the municipality can only hire a white company and have a black company subcontract the job..however the fundamental thing here is that when negotiation were at an advanced stage in the late 80’s, white people negotiated a constitution which wouuld allow them to keeps the spoils of apartheid, including profits, land and most important the system that they had inplace..Chris Hani saw this coming a mile away and questioned how it would benefit the black people? hence his assasination..the system was designed by whites for white people and no matter who is in the driving seat the system will always lean towards the minority (whites) as they created it..(It’s like buying a Toyota and lets say you manage to pay it off..that vehicle never stops belonging to Toyota even though you have paid it off when it dies you have to take it back to Toyota to get it fixed or buy the parts from Toyota if you have a “Bush Mechanic ” like me) thats the case with the system in S.A. yes you see alot of black in the institution you mentioned however are they REALLY in control? NO..and yes white companies or white owned business was always going to get off the ground that much faster as the cultural norms dictate that those who have the money have the buying power and they decide what gets sold or who gets employed..and yes the economy would’ve collapsed had we pulled off a Zimbabwe here as 60% of the reserve bank is privately owned (whites)..”Sharing the economy”..means designing a system which is inclusive to all races, other races musn’t get fast-tracked simply because people of their race are incharge black and white.. change the cultural norms which are largely white and western and be accomodative to non-westerns and non-whites (keep in mind “cultural norms” dictate who to buy from or who to employ)..it would help that whenever this is mentioned that some ignorant white person doesnt shout “racism”..Here is a fact a majority of our people suffer from illiteracy(thanks to 400+ yrs of oppression) inparticular when it comes to MONEY MANAGEMENT,so naturally they go buy a car using financial resources from a white owned bank so inturn they are enslaved to that bank results is debt and I agree with you debt is not necessary..explaining “whiteness” it’s a quality that doesnt technically exist but it hides itself behind western norms, reinforced again and again through most of our media as a sign of beauty, trustworthiness, empathy and intellegence..it give a bias to certain ways of being.

        • OpenDebate

          Mli, I would like to have a discussion regarding a non-western system that would in fact include black people in the economic system. What would such a system entail and how would it work? Would it not be too far removed from the rest of the world, that SA would become isolated? I am honestly open to suggestions – cultural differences often clouds one’s views (I am referring to myself). I am myself occupied in the building industry. And I honestly would like to tell you that the fact that consultants are mostly white, except for the inequalities of the past, has very little to do with whites manipulating the current system. The problem lies firstly with proper and available education for all (yes, apartheid has very much to do with this, but my point is that whites today cannot do much about it, except if the government could design a system which requires of whites to get actively involved in education – I would be open to that). And I also think that perhaps black kids themselves do not choose these career paths – either out of a cultural background, and interest in other careers, or merely because they haven’t been exposed to the possibilities out there. The company I work for has a BEE 2 status. The white woman who started it gave 51% away to achieve this. She and her business partner get along very well, and she never complains about the move she had to make. But in this company, it means that there are no more opportunities for any other person – therefore it does not matter that I have 4 degrees, so I feel I am paying my dues for what previous generations did. Furthermore, we do at least 3 tenders per month. Guess how much tenders have been granted to us over the last 2 years?? Zero. There is so much corruption in the building industry, especially from the government’s side. So I guess we are all guilty – the measure of your guilt just depends on the timing? I can recognize that there are still white people in management positions in institutions such as the Reserve Bank. But you see, the whole concept of a banking system is a western entity. So how would one reform it to suit African culture? This is not an attack, by the way; I am really interested in hearing your ideas. And if one views the system as a western system, would it be wise to simply hand it over to a person that does not understand the western system? Or should we eradicate all the banks and start anew with our own African system? I also don’t like the way that banks hijack my life when I need to buy a house or a vehicle. But if there is a better way of doing it, then maybe someone should start doing it – don’t you think that is an opportunity for someone like yourself? You see, except for the few whites that may be capitalists, most whites, like myself, suffer under the same economic system. I live from month to month, and I pay my butt off on taxes to a government that prevents me from excelling, and then I am currently reminded that this is my punishment for what previous generations did. If only they would at least use the taxes to develop the education system, and allow society to grow organically. But instead, they enrich themselves and get a thumbs-up for doing it.

          • Mli

            Wow!!..I have yet to meet someone like you “OpenDebate” and I hope that I don’t pass-on before I do..#1.have restrictions as to the amount of minerals that can be exported out of S.A.(which is in the hands of capital) and take “strategic” control of our resources so we can be able to beneficiate ,industrialize and create many job opportunities (I am sure you would agree when I say that there is no country which has industrialized without deliberately protecting it’s own industries and precious material) #2. We need to be incontrol of our own economy which in this case aren’t.
            There is nothing we can do about the majority of white consultants NOW however we can have a system in place (educationally) where graduates e.g. construction-have graduates work as contractors before moving up to “consultation-level” as is the case now, so that experience and proper knowledge of what they special in isn’t limited to theory. and your suggestion too which I think is very sound.
            They global system now is western generally that can’t be changed, however we can find a way to manipulate the system as it is to benefit our people as other emerging markets have done and are doing as we speak..e.g.China did it very well and Brazil is levelling out what used to be the worlds largest levels of inequality.
            hahahahhahaha!! “few whites that may be capitalist” hahahahaha!!..the system itself is “capitalist” globally and as a result it’s dog eat dog, as it doesn’t allow new industrial countries to develop..so imagine the effects it has in a country with historical patterns like ours..”handing over a capitalist system to someone that doesn’t know it” hahahaha!!.. i take you mean a black person, what we are saying here is that first white folk must admit that they played a huge role for the mess we currently find ourselves in (together) so let us all “collectively” devise a strategy to get us out of this hell-hole however we all have to accept our past sins of having hated and degraded one another (not Mandela’s approach of covering it all in the “rainbow nation” phrase)..we must all speak out balck & white for what should be an inclusive society in all spheres economically, socially and academically.
            Banks!!..”grief for days”..we need to have a 100% state owned bank (however not with the current government , it would be bankrupt in no time) that will allow lending and at the same-time have an interest rate that is symbolic of our economy not the global economic rating as is the case now( there is a plan in motion for this a personal project with mates)..we would never see the light of day with these money-hives.
            To close off the government of the day has failed and dismally so..ANC rule especially under Zuma rule has been a nightmare for South African small businesses too much red-tape which cripples the desire to want or to grow..our frustration as a black people also stems from that, we have a government that doesnt have a clear plan for it’s people and all we see left and right is white prosperity and growth in the midst of our darkest hours, white’s appear to be sailing along on a speed boat whilst we rowing.

    • wdefaq

      Let me get this straight, you are a person who thinks a history lesson from google justifies your accuracy in true History?! continuous contradiction of your failed education is too obvious, furthermore, wealth distribution is theft, you justifying it shows your greed, what did your species contribute to this wealth that now needs distribution?! was it your; technology, infrastructure, engineering, architecture skills, written word, education, medical skills, development skills, business skills, agricultural skills, monetary development?!?! non of the above, when it is given to you on a silver platter you destroy it, face it, it is not yours, never will be, your species had contributed nothing to this planet besides being a consumer, do you enjoy the anger you feel now?!? This is my point, 400+ years won’t change you or your species, you are & always will be; good for nothing, always complaining, always wanting, always arguing facts, always blaming others, unthankfull morons, this is one thing that you will never understand because your wealth distribution ethics is the reason your species will never progress.

      • Mli

        “Let me get this straight, you are a person who thinks a history lesson from google justifies your accuracy in true History?!”

        No i am not, I am a person who believes the history taught and given by your kind to us is and was a lie. No version of history given by white people could ever be correct, there is no opressor or invader that could ever give a correct historical content of those he seeks to destroy or enslave.

        “continuous contradiction of your failed education is too obvious, furthermore, wealth distribution is theft, you justifying it shows your greed, what did your species contribute to this wealth that now needs distribution?”

        Well my “failed” education is the same education your people introduced to us and its the same “failed” education system which has “failed” you into believing that you are better and that Africans are nothing but uncivilised savages. You want to know what my “species” (hahahahaha wow) contributed to this wealth? Let me school you white boy because I know your VERY LIMITED education system or should i say “failed’ education system doesnt educate your kind about “Mapungubwe” and its treasure which got hidden deep in the vaults of the University of Pretoria. “Manyikeni” another black city just like Mapungubwe where black people traded amongst themselves in gold, ivory and linen. “Kilwa Kasiwani” in Tangayika a city once described by Ibn Batutta as a “a thing of beauty”. These places/cities are there and the damage done by your people and their prejudice minds in not believing that a people so simple could have the sophistication and intellegence to self-determine, which ironically is the same situation that still at play 400+ years later. Africa is littered with natural-resources which Africans had beeen digging up a thousand years before your people plunged into the “Dark-Ages”.
        This is my WEALTH!!..MY COUNTRY!!..MY PEOPLE WHO WERE SLAUGHTERED BY THOSE SAVAGES YOU CALL FORE PARENTS!! MY PEOPLE’S BLOOD AND SWEAT BUILT THIS CIVILIZATION!! MY PEOPLE WHOM YOU MADE SLAVES!!..No white person worth his salt can ever deny the undeniable, irrifutable and undisputable fact, truth and history of your blood-shed here, you ought to be grateful we still asking for “wealth redistribution”.Fact is we should’ve killed each and everyone of you.

        “was it your; technology, infrastructure, engineering, architecture skills, written word, education, medical skills, development skills, business skills, agricultural skills, monetary development?!?!”
        YES IT WAS!!..black people introduced your “species” to this civilisation, the hook nosed johnny come lately who just crawled out of the hills of Europe. My people took civilisation and education to Europe and Europeans at a time where 99% of your people were illiterate including your so-called kings and queens. The black moors that conquered Spain and Portugal were directly responsible for DRAGGING europe/europeans out of the dark-ages. (Go to these places and you will see the footprint left by black people there in Europe) Al Alandus, Cordova and Cataluna. We were there long before!!

        • wdefaq

          Seeing that your IQ of 40 is not obvious to you, but so annoying to an educated advanced civilisation, do not use google theories to try & proof facts, it is really pathetic to say the least. Let me proof my point; direct death threats is punishable by law & as an individual not living in South Africa an international crime, at that, you so prove your advanced species theory . Let me reiterate; the obvious mistake you & your species make is to think that white people fear the black subspecies, we are most advanced, in the 1 hour you took to reply, certain individuals already traced your phone, your bank account with 2 digits, your lack of education & your whereabouts, your defaulted instalments, yes like I said, the artist of the painting knows his colours, so his technology, not yours, I will proof to you why my species are better at everything, seeing you already threatened me, I will make the next move I have to take the necessary steps to defend myself, not?! at all cost, in my country we are trained in a special ritual; isara lago sara, ” South Africa is a very dangerous place to be, as your advanced subspecies is hard at work, proving their superiority as you so mildly put it, please sleep soft & awake or just don’t sleep, Now read every 7th word, arrange it in numerical order, remove the verbs from every 10th line, line them up, it will spell out something only you knows, if you wet your pants at this stage, it will be the least of your worries. Never mislead for others to perceive something which you are not, is a very dangerous game, for there are always someone who is better trained, more experienced & smarter than you, keep your eye on the 3rd one it is the tracer.

          • Mli

            I am so scared!!…these are things I will never apologise for it is there proof, fact and history support my argument, what do you have? History written by murderous, robbers and thieves!!!..PLEASE!!

          • wdefaq

            I don’t give a ra what your evil brain is cooking up, because you are evil it will promote hate, 7 farmers killed in Namibia since the visit of your leader Malema, in recent weeks, the prophecies are now kick started a war against your kind, why do you think your president put a bunker in his house paid by blood money? He tried to remove all inscriptions of a specific prophet, his prophecies explained the demise of your evil kind in this war which God himself will release on South Africa, because of evil attitudes like yours, suffering will be immense, nowhere to run, this will not be” Blood river” it will be worse, blood will flow like never before, which will start in Namibia….he thinks his bunker will protect him in this war, most advanced weapons will be used, God’s Angels will round you all up, the nuclear explosion will rip through millions, the smoke of your evil flesh, will block the sun, your days are numbered, you will see your brothers in hell soon, you will experience how demons enjoy ripping your hate filled hearts apart!!

          • Mli

            hahahahahaha!!..that has to be thee most insane rant I have ever come across!!..hahahaha!!..
            “God’s Angels will round you all up, the nuclear explosion will rip through millions, the smoke of your evil flesh, will block the sun, your days are numbered, you will see your brothers in hell soon, you will experience how demons enjoy ripping your hate filled hearts apart!!”
            Did you read this after typing it? This is “BUNKER” mentality!! Get a grip!!..You make me SICK TO MY STOMACH with your “white privelege” and sense of superiority!!!
            I have had my share of experience with “DEMONS” called white people, i hope those in hell pack the same punch as we are ready to engage them too just like we are doing to you now and PLEASE stop trying to threaten me with WAR it wont work im too smart for that..you dealing with a different darkie here papa!!
            It is very arrogant of you to expect me to sympathise with “7 white-farmers” only “7”, when I am a survivor of the “African Holocaust” which lasted 500years and killed over 600million of my people and still do in those farms. So forgive me for not sympathising with those only “7” families as im still grieving for the millions of my people who lost their lives, lives you dont even want to acknowledge.
            BRING THE WAR!!

          • wdefaq

            Most insane rant?!? ever been to the rest of Africa, where no whites have ever been…war stricken disease stricken famine you must see the level of insanity from your superior brothers, especially when they see our white convoys coming in to supply the much needed “white” food & medication, they build these shabby boats to flee, for a better life to other superior black countries, NOT. I will never asked for sympathy from a subhuman, it is not in your DNA, read it from middle up to the 10th line, then visa versa, Show me the millions you are talking about, 500 years,?!? You are very old to have seen all this for yourself, learn to focus, seeing you did not do well school, were you part of the mob who burnt down schools, as education was part of oppression, so is white medication also a curse seeing that it stopped your vile disease stricken species from completely dying off, I take it the nice food you enjoy from white people is also a form of oppression, seeing that all of your species farm commercially?!? Where does one get seed to plant?!? You buy it in packets from white people right, No your superior species just get it from thin air, seeing that food is exported from all African countries….oh no wait it is bought from white farmers by the UN & sent all over Africa as relief aid….now 13 million In Zimbabwe too needing this “white” food not needing white farmers any more, your superior brothers are convincing everyone all over the world how superior they are as high IQ non subhuman, non racist, non murdering, non useless non parasitic self sustainable civilised species…NOT, see no matter how you try to defend yourself, I post all your replies to our organisation to show the real racists in Africa to the rest of the world even to our white brothers….oh you thought I was white, we civilised blacks do not find you related at all, to us as you have no level of humanity in your bones, you need to be removed from Africa so the real black & white brothers can live in peace, the day you realise you need whites for you to survive, is the day your life will turn around & prosper, but that will never happen this why there needs to be war to remove the evil from Africa

          • Mli

            You a black man? hahahahahaha!!..Not in a million years!!..if you are then you are the biggest “UNCLE TOM” i have ever come across and you need to remove yourself from the white man backside, lord knows if you sneeze it might come out of his mouth.
            Had you not been such an “uncle-tom” or denialist you’d know that the frst white-man to come over did so in 1555 on a ship named “Jesus” under the command of a man named J.Hawkins. GO TO SCHOOL PLEASE!!..Oooh i forgot you are white and because of that you dont need ot go to school, you are born into privelege.

            “Taz” with you, i am done with you as your level of intellectual bankcrupcy is on another level and I refuse to engage with you anymore as you might just bring me down to your level and down there you are likely to win.

          • wdefaq

            So you’re contradicting yourself again, this the reason why no human can have a debate with your species, you change the rules as you go along, lets take a few of your arguments: you only use “White man’s History” when it suits you, taken from google, another white man’s invention, but when you need to produce your title deeds for all the land of Africa that was taken from you, it is not a “Black man’s principle, when you need to show proof of all the millions of black people that were killed, in South Africa, again information given by Uneducated Terrorists it is factual, this completely proved to us your IQ of 40, relevant to your reasoning, Lets use your Superior reasoning in a simple mathematical equation; if all the Land of South Africa every (square inch) belonged to black people, it equates to a total of 1.2 Billion people, this is your fact, if 1.2 Billion people were murdered by the Dutch, French & Germans who occupied/ discovered South Africa, you would be able to find remains everywhere you walk in every square inch of the Southern Tip of Africa…yet the Khoi & San were here too, but they have no History of the White South African killing them off & as your history has proven they were hunted by the Zulu from the Far North, so again that means that the “Dark Skin” people are not native to South Africa, by your history, shows what a dumb uneducated good for nothing, murderous thief you are, why don’t you just crawl back to the hole you came from, you can not compete on any level with civilised people, be it white, black, ping or green, you will always be a looser, you have nothing to show, everything you use, buy, own, comes from white people, better you go back north to where you can live happy on your ancestral land, working the land with your primitive equipment…yes your history has proven that South Africa never belonged to black people.

  • Gazzo

    I was vaguely interested until near the end of ‘Lie Number One’, when a number of factual inaccuracies become glaringly apparent. Botswana wasn’t part of South Africa (which is, essentially, the former Cape and Natal colonies combined to the two Boer republics). It was known as the Bechuanaland Protectorate, and remained self-governing during colonial times. It was not, therefore ‘given’ to black people by the British, as it remained a sovereign state. The Bafokeng tribe didn’t see any benefits from the platinum mines until after the end of apartheid, when they were awarded massive royalties (so not really a great act of generosity by the apartheid government).

    Finally, it is patently ridiculous to claim that the Natives Land Act of 1913 did not prohibit black people from buying land in white areas. That is EXACTLY what it did! You can quibble about the exact percentage of South Africa was available to black people (here’s a clue: we’re talking about the percentage of SOUTH AFRICAN land allocated to black people, not ‘South Africa, Lesotho, Swaziland and Botswana’), but the undeniable truth is that that the vast majority of the country was made unavailable to black people.

    That’s just Lie Number One. I would have read further, but since it was obviously turning into a load of unashamed apartheid-apologism, I didn’t bother.
    I’m no fan of land invasions, but before you go accusing other people of lying you may want to ensure that your own ‘facts’ are correct.

    • Dogbite777

      You habe no comprehension of your own drivel om your post. If the Bafokeng tribe didn’t see any benefits from the minerals, it was a great act of generosity by the then white government to make them aware and open their greedy little black eyes for them! Why don’t that tribe share their land and riches with the rest of the RSA? Why are they allowed to keep their stolen land, stolen from white farmers, after they raped the farmers’ wifes and murdered them in cold blood? It’s a crime against humanity, for God’s sake!

      • Mli

        Well put Gazzo finally somebody who has knowledge and isn’t just spitting racist drivel..”Dogbite777″ awukwazi ukufunda ingxaki yakho, qha ulibhulu elinengxaki enkulu kwaye..”land stolen from white farmers” just goes to show how out of touch you are with time and history, lost with your “whiteness” pathetic!!

        • Dogbite777

          You people are the pathetic ones, out of touch with history, and more importantly, clueless about the facts. You think nice “stories” are “historical facts”. You make up stories by word of mouth as you go along, usurping and leaching from properly recorded white history. You deliberately create fanciful stories and call it history.
          There is no recorded African history, as your forefathers could not read or write. Fact is, they were running around in skimpy loin cloths at a time when white people were centuries ahead of them in development and civilization. Everything you touch today, is a product of the white man’s innovation and creativeness.

          What you have done in your infantile reaction, is to prove just how fallible and untrustworthy such stories are, especially when paraded as “history”, like I have done with my story about the land stolen from whites. Tit for tat, old sport. Thanks for your co-operation in this regard.

          • Mli

            No we dont think “nice stories” are history or factual matter of fact we know what is factual..I educated acouple of ignorant white people like you on this very same platform on things that were invented by black people as far back as 1754 which are in use this day…the history your people wrote was nothing but LIES meant to glorify whiteness and white people in general and we know white folks and the truth.. it’s like oil and water, so you keep diverting the fact that your people were nothing but barbaric hooligans who murdered people in their millions just to get their dirty white hands on the weatlh, all corners of the globe are dripping with blood spilled by your people’s greed and lust for greatness..we know your people didnt settle in Africa because it seemed to be in need of development, No your people settled because you saw wealth in abudance this is recorded in the Bible (yes the one your people wrote) as far back as Moses (Egypt), they speak and show how prosperous and advanced Africa was..i know you’ll flip and say Egyptians aren’t black so I’ll give you a little asignment go google the word “Khemit” since you so good at research..when it comes to the land issue your people love to refer to the Khoi/San as if they aren’t a part of the black race which I find very ammusing.

          • Dogbite777

            This is exactly how the black peoples fabricate their oral history. It’s whimsical, is unverifiable and is made up on the go, as the fancy strikes.

            This how it will go: Some fanciful story of of a noble induna would be
            presented, with great gusto and imagination, and as soon as it is shown
            to be fanciful or questionable, immediately you are attacked for “not
            understanding”, or the story would be adapted to side-step the lie
            presented.

            It’s a sly and unscrupulous way to assimilate pieces of
            history gleaned from other peoples and tribes, as well as being made
            up.

            Blacks prefer the history to be unverifiable to avoid any scrutiny
            thereof, as it would not stand muster. It’s not only pathetic, but
            seriously dishonest and sly manipulation.

          • Mli

            I gave you an assignment..did you go do your research? I see you commenting but putting nothing to counter my arguement except say what white people have been saying all these years “african history is nothing but lies told around a fire” again I want to put to you that Africans have a history which was told from generation to generation..be it verbal or in form of art now you wouldn’t know that..zulu’s wrote letters using beeds for example..African history didn’t start been told when the white man arrived, it was the death of our history.

          • Dolk

            Jou pille is op – die slegte nuus? Dit werk nie.

          • Dolk

            Frieken SKERP insig!

          • OpenDebate

            I think Egyptians themselves will flip if you class them as either white OR black. They are more closely related to Arabs, but they also don’t claim to be Arabic. In their drawings they depict themselves as neither black or white, but they do use distinguishable colours between themselves, the Nubians (blacks) and lighter skinned people (I think the latter were Coptics). There may be theories about your claims, but nothing has been proven. However, I don’t really care what race they were – they did great things! I just don’t think you should speak on their behalf.

          • Mli

            I mentioned them in the African context and the fact that they reside in what was historically “Khemitian” the word means “the black land”..and the indigenous tradition of the Egyptians tells us that the civilization there was “Khemit” and the people and language too were called “khemitian” meaning “Black People”..

          • Mark Datter

            Black soil… the word denotes a place, very clearly. It was the fertile soil they named it after. Just stop trying to shoehorn such lies into your black Egypt fantasy. It’s well established that it wasn’t a black civilization at all. Nobody with any intelligence believes your afrocentric lies.

          • JohnDoe

            Kho/San are not black, nor white, just as much as Chinese are not white.
            Since you are so good at facts, please let me know how many blacks were murdered by whites?
            Then look at the fact that Shaka Zulu was responsible for murdering over 1 million people, of which is estimated a more accurate figure would be 2 million people, mostly blacks. That was Shaka alone, now add other black groups who murdered black tribes too.
            Then, you tell me who were the biggest tyrants and blood thirsty murderous race, the blacks or whites?

          • Mli

            hahahahahahaha!!..”JohnDoe” I must say i am astounded by your intellectual bankcrupcy hahahahahahaha!!..yeah blacks had bad people matter of fact VERY BAD people and i did say earlier on another comment that Shaka Zulu was a savage!!..you say “Shaka Zulu was responsible for murdering over 1m people and you want us to compare the most “blood thirsty murderous race”..ok since those numbers cannot be verified and confirmed I’ll let them stick, however “Shaka Zulu” didn’t live for 350+ years as did slavery..so now you tell me how many black people do you think died since 1555 when John Hawkins landed in Africa and systematically started selling us? Did black people go to America and murder all the Red Indians? or to Australia with the Abarigines? or to New Zealnd with the Maori? No it was white people who went there and nearly whiped out entire ethnic groups..was Hitler black? NO!!..he alone killed 6million Jews in only four years..Do you really want me to continue?

          • No, Black Bantu killed ALL the indigenous peoples in Sub Saharan Africa and left not a trace of them. At least the white Americans, who ended slavery, are making amends. Do we see blacks making amends to what they did to the Sandawe, Hadza, Pygmy and Khoi San peoples?
            If it were not whites, slavery would still exist…

          • Yet white’s ended slavery… if it where not for whites, slavery would, and still does, exist in Africa and Asia…

          • When will “SA News (Mod)” look at an English grammar book and learn that only grossly ignoramus-types write an apostrophe-s for a plural?

          • Well, you totally won the argument there. Certainly you should be allowed to dictate how countries are run now.

          • Lola

            How many people died in the world war fueled mainly by white men and their “smarts”…? Google it. 67 million….who are the tyrants? Blacks or whites?

  • Tman

    wat ‘n pot kak

  • Oliver Wood

    What a load of white supremist bullshit! This is the same crap the NP government tried to spin at schools. Oh and because you discover something via a search on Google it doesn’t make it a fact – you dumb fucking rockspiders!

  • Steven Conscious

    LOL What a laughable load of bullshit. The devil comes to steal, kill & destroy. The father of lies for real. Thank you white people for showing yourselves as the devils you are.

  • chiawelo2011

    This article shows how apartheid was/is so powerful. Thanks the Gods, Africans never invaded Europe to subjugate and write about White Europeans. I am an African (which includes Va Sarwa, recently dubbed Hottentots and Bushmen by non-Africans) in 2015 as I was 1000 years ago on this continent! Google 800 years of Tsonga history, especially Africans. We Africans hate nor despise no non-Africans ask most non-African visitors to Africa; as victims colonialism/apartheid we offer Mandela and preach reconciliation, the reverse is NOT TRUE, and the offensive/arrogant article above illustrates.

  • Lindie Rochelle

    None of this should matter, one land, one nation. “United we shall stand” It’s not a claim, it’s an instruction. If South Africans do not unite in a common goal of freedom, not just racial but economic, educational and political freedom,to scratch the ice berg, then, ununited, but all together we shall fall. Stop the bickering and finger pointing while we are distracted by this Zuma is making off with the family silver!!!!

  • Swiss Wyte

    Who ever wrote this clearly talks of peace FOR THE WHITE MAN IN AFRICA by destroying the black man’s image. Just by reading you people’s ignorant comments shows how your savage DNA still enrages in your blood veins.

    This article is the essence of a dumb man trying to be smart through the fuel of racism. He says there’s 7000 tribes in Africa but only 50 countries? This on it’s own should tell you that he has nothing to do with the liberation of Africans because he is clearly ignorant of the fact that in the 1800s there was something called “The Scramble for Africa” which ultimately lead to Africa having these imaginary boundaries set by colonial masters!

    So all of what has been said here is utter bullshit with your pale skinned dog like nose mentality of neandertal DNA! just leave Africa, don’t matter if you were born there as long as your ancestors who settles there didn’t come in peace and had no african blood at all then you might as well fuck off if you don’t like it. Even in europe if you are black and born there they will not see you as european but as African first! So leave Africa to the BLACK AFRICANs! You whites are not indigenous anywhere outside of europe! So spare us with your useless words in Africa! We know our history, you don’t call shots in our land, if you try that, your days are numbered on the continent.

    • Saffa Coza

      Sorry the truth was not spoon fed to you via mass media propaganda or text books written by the victor.

      It is VERY sad because you liberal twats have no idea of the real genocide you are complicit in. Did you know that YOUR dumb obedience to the politically correct Marxist Supremacist war machine has been responsible for the continued genocide of the OLDEST RACE ON EARTH. The San bushman are being obliterated by your darling black bantu. The black bantu even refuse to give THE OLDEST PEOPLE ON EARTH their rightful place as First Nation, even though the UN has demanded it.

      For F sake, their language, the oldest on earth, is not even recognised by your darling bantu! You arrogant holier than thou libtard.

      It is very hard not to burst out in all kinds of expletive’s when you use propaganda phrases like “scramble for Africa” as if that proves anything. No one is denying European colonisation. Everyone however is denying Bantu colonisation, which is far worse and far more expansive and far more genocidal.

      You are so ignorant you think liberation means collectivised enslavement to totalitarian states. It is you who are the supremacist racist and your spinelessness that is destroying Africa.. as it is destroying Europe.

      I just want every nation, no matter how many nations there are, or how small they are, to have their own country or state… YOU want to enforce them into large artificial communist centrist proletariat regions.
      Have you not yet realised that British and American Imperialism, Globalism and Communism are all the same people?

  • Norbert Thomas

    Citations please. Plenty of claims here but nothing to back them up.

  • Charles Nankin

    “They probably crosses into the present-day Republic of South Africain appreciable numbers in the course of the 17th century”

    Apart from the greater geographical and historical context which you provide in this piece, from what sources can we get the best indications of the dates and numbers of the bantu immigration?

    What are the best indications we have of living standards, values, technological development, ubuntu, injustices etc found amongst the Bantu culture?

    • Charles, the question is how did the bantu go from being a small tribe in Northern Nigeria, to populating the entire Sub Saharan Continent? And where are all the tribes that used to live there? We know of the Sandawe, Hadza (only a few hundred individuals remain). Pygmy, SAN etc. See attached map.
      This is something on a similar scale to the so called European colonisation of th America’s. Unfortunately the bantu did not keep records as they had only basic writing. They did not even have the wheel when Europeans arrived.
      We as humans need to start becoming aware that unkempt uncontrolled overbreeding is a danger to all of us never mind those that choose a higher quality of live over large families.
      Scientists have already stated that this mass breeding will invoke the sixth mass extinction event within 100 years (similar to the extinction of the dinosaurs)!
      To start getting fussy over perceived racism or not, is to be complicit is mass genocide…
      The worst part is that the politically correct world is salivating after and sucking up to black Africans thinking that they are the first nation on earth when they are NOT – it is the black african bantu who have and are killing off the real first oldest nation, the SAN people of Southern Africa!

  • Dirkie Kuhn

    Ai Mr. Mli, if you were not that racist, we could have had a very interesting conversation. I think you have to go back to school, finish your grade 12 and get educated. The more you open your mouth the more stupid things you brubble. Stop being a racist. You have your democracy now, use it, go build now a better country, because you are not happy with the previous one. Stop whining and groaning about what is now. You wanted it! Make it a lovable livable and peaceful country for you all…. Seeing from far away, you said you can do it! Show us! Prove the world wrong about the dark unstable Continent! All the best!

  • Sisanda Veti

    Clueless black here.. someone please explain to me. Why were black people referred to as NATIVES and whites as EUROPEAN in the 1940s please explain this as it seems your grand parent know something you dont. Can you honestly be that delusional how is this possible? If we are all settlers why weren’t we all labelled as such. Honesly you people read one article and you people start celebrating are you that desperate to vindicate yourselves.

    • Because the Communist party who had hijacked the ANC back then introduced the word in order to deceive an entire generation and agitate them into violent revolution. All communist revolutions require lying to the masses so they will rise up and then the elitists can swoop in take all the reward… see what all your “struggle heroes” have done? They are all multimillionaires now.
      Google the term “Useful Idiot”.
      South Africa is not the first country they applied this modus operandi to…. and not the last, they are now trying it in Europe and USA.
      The Zulu and Xhosa nations only came into existence in the early 1800’s, hundreds of years after the Afrikaner (Cape Dutch) and Boers.

      • Sisanda Veti

        Sir/ma’am
        I like that you say that black people have been told lies by our leaders in the past and I agree with you 100% some black people in our country today have a sense of entitlement a culture that has been berthed by these very lies that you speak of. Now i ask you could it also be possible that maybe just maybe that you as white people said lies about black people could it be that just as black people were deceived by their leader white people were also deceived by your leaders???????????

        • Of course, no one is saying whites are perfect. But remember, just as much as black leaders lied to and misused black people, so did white leaders. De Klerk is very hated amongst whites. But above all that is the Rhodes’, Oppenheimers and Ruperts who were the Capitalist Zionist agents that captured south Africa century ago.
          Mandela was a puppet and too simple a person to know the difference.
          White’s are however upset because they are being assimilated. EVERY single aspect of white existence is being attacked and destroyed, transformed and laced with guilt. It is only going to get worse. And yet again it is the Communist / Capitalist / Zionist cabal pushing it all. The Clinton, Ford, Rockefeller, Carnegie foundations that deceive and buy black loyalty to destroy countries and enslave them.
          Racism is a red herring, a straw man, generally people on the ground get on well with each other, it is politicians that need racism to get votes. How else are you going to start false grassroots groups like Black Lives Matter and OpenStellenbosch without racebaiting and bigotbaiting?
          South Africa has belonged to the Capitlaist / Zonist / Communist cabal since 1902 if not before and sadly blacks fall for the manipulation everytime.
          It was zionist white people that wrote the freedom charter, it was zionist white people that funded the “struggle” and funded mandela. It was capitalist zionist money that bribed De Klerk and Mandela. And once again it is zinist money behind DA and EFF.
          The only path to freedom is in self determination for all the 12 nations and languages in South Africa. South Africa needs to be broken into its constituent parts.
          But the capitalist zionist globalists are not allowing it because they want to rule the whole world. There are 150 people / nations without a state that are being denied independence worldwide… it is no coincidence…
          psss No need to call anyone sir.

          • Sisanda Veti

            I agree with you 100%. What gets to me personally and you can refer to the comments you’ve had from this article that white people see or think that they had no part to play I would like for you to level the playing field and expose of the myths that white peopl have been fed by their own people. so that whites and blacks can see that no one here is perfect and one sided articles only perpectuates the lies that you as a people have been told. And I’ll say it again by not coming up with a second article that covers the myths white people have been told you are in actual fact breeding your very own usefull idiots on this very platform. Because after reading about all these lies black have been told basically painting an image of how ignorant black people are no white person is going to even attempt to try find out what lies they themselves have been told.

  • בת שבע סיידר

    I can appreciate the fact that black people were not the only ones who went on conquests. European Christians and Muslims have as well, think Christopher Columbus and Jan Van Riebeeck. Now we have war in Syria. But I never thought I would see apartheid alive and well again in South Africa, what black people might think is fair and justified, white people consider themselves to be walking in the shoes of their fathers (of the black community) who lived the Apartheid era. Perhaps not quite in the same manner seeing that living space is not segregated like before, but from an employment perspective, the loss of a perfectly good job due to skin colour will results the same i.e. low or no income result in living on the street or low income housing. I am still trying to wrap my head around why so many black people would think that whites had all the jobs when the white people aren’t even the majority in the country. If anything, someone with some brains should have focused on job creation, not create more poverty for the next generation of white people who never asked for Apartheid in the first place. I dont have much hope left for South Africa, white people need to come to their senses and leave while they can, save up those pennies, it is bad enough that the Rand is so weak and will possibly grow weaker. The country has gone to the dogs.

  • Pingback: Black Africans MUST give back the land THEY stole from Khoi-San and rename Homo-Naledi to Homo-San! | SA-News.com()

  • Mikemikev

    Interesting article.

  • Joseph Goebels

    Racist lies, go and study Palaeoanthropology and you will realise that the first humans were Black Africans and not Khoisan.In any event Khoisan did not have a sense of landownership.They had no standing armies and hierarchical societies like us Africans.You deliberately took land from organised communities.While we as Africans inter married and absorbed Khoisan into our communities with little or no violence.You are a savage and wicked race and you do not belong in the African continent.Even on this planet whites are aliens.You are human and something else that is not human.

    • bone

      Wrong the khoisan really never inter married with the black race and they never consider themselves part of the Bantu people as is today as my blood line runs to the khoisan. They are also the indigenous people of southern Africa as is proved through their rock art dating back before Europeans and Bantu people. The land they lived on was theirs as back then they didnt need a title deed for this until the europeans arrived much like the native americans.

    • Andrew Charles Donaldson

      Imagine if people in Europe said that “blacks” reciprocally “do not belong on the European continent”? Arsehole.

      • Saffa Coza

        There is actually an article on SA-News stating just that, but it did not even elicit a complaint = seems the concept of black privilege and supremacy is very deeply instilled…

    • Saffa Coza

      I should report this article for its genocidal tone and blatant lies. Yes, go study DNA and Haplogroups and you will see San are the oldest race alive, in fact a few steps BEFORE black African / Bantu / Negro /nguni or whatever you call yourself. The science is there, you cam from Northern Nigeria and conquered the entire subsaharan Africa in the last 2,000 years. YOU are the true colonialists.
      Bantu / Nguni is actually a very young race, even the Boers are older than Zulu or Xhosa, I guess that can be seen in the immaturity displayed by bantu and their inability to actually do anything for themselves. Just consume, use and take from others.
      If whites are part alien you better watch out, our creator might just come back and put you in your place…

  • Brandon

    Only towards the end of the 16th century did the Afrikaner farmers increasingly come into contact with Black tribes.

    This statement is incorrect.
    Allow me to explain…

    15th Century – 1400’s
    16th Century – 1500’s
    17th Century – 1600’s
    18th Century – 1700’s
    19th Century – 1800’s
    20th Century – 1900’s
    21st Century – 2000’s

    Regards
    Brandon

  • Brandon

    Only towards the end of the 16th century did the Afrikaner farmers increasingly come into contact with Black tribes.

    Incorrect statement. You are referring to the 17 century.

  • Joseph Goebels

    Racist article written by people ridden with guilt of the atrocities they committed against Black People. A supremacist article written by a race that only causes trouble for those not like it.

  • Pingback: The 4 black lies about land in South Africa. Bantu (black Africans) DO NOT have default right to land. | SA-News.com | PERKY;s BLOG()

  • Lira2

    Wow who ever wrote this is a retard who doesn’t know anything about African history. White people would say the craziest things to try and justify their savagery. First of all, NO ONE knows the history of Bantu people. Europeans Theory vs facts! Go ask your ancestors why there aren’t any major buildings and established ancient African cities today..because they destroyed them! The only people that committed genocide on Khoisan people are the Dutch and Germans…both savages. Up until the 17th century after heavy European invasion, Africa was way more advanced than Europe. That’s something they won’t teach u in your white washed history books. As Bantus of Southern Africa, we have Khoisan blood running through our veins and that’s a fact. I have Khoisan ancestry, our people came together to try and fight off the invading devil that was the European. Do some research on the great Azanian civilization and the great, advanced cities that existed all over southeast Africa before u neanderthals came. FOH